Polish soldiers in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS?

[Obserwator]

he motive of the Jewish resistance in Poland was not simply to "die with honour", as is usually claimed, but rather to assist the Soviet Union and the spread of Communism.

I find it aburd to believe that Jewish people trapped in Warsaw Ghetto and destined to end up in gas chambers took up arms to "spread communism"

[Daniel L]

Like I wrote, let's get back to Tom's original question.

Best regards/ Daniel

[michael mills]

It appears that Agadanik simply has not read my posts in the thread to which I provided a link, and which gave my sources.

On the question of the support of the Jewish Underground in Poland, in particular the leftist Zionist youth organisation Hashomer Hatsa'ir, for the Soviet Union and Communism, I will quote here what I wrote in those posts, so that Agadanik cannot avoid the reality of Jewish support for the spread of Communism to Poland.

I am drawing on an article by the Polish historian Teresa Prekerowa.

Prekerowa then draws on material from the Jewish underground press in Poland to show that the Jewish resistance, both Communist and non-Communist, had a specific ideological predilection for the Soviet Union and Communism that went far beyond mere tactical manoeuvring. She shows that in the period before 1941, while the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact was still in force, left-wing Zionist organisations promoted the Communist interpretation of the ongoing German-British war "as a struggle between two capitalisms: the hungry one (German) and the satiated one (Western, especially English)".

She writes (p. 151):

Neged hazerem, a newspaper published by hashomer Hatsa'ir and edited by, inter alios, Mordechai Anielewicz, expressed the opinion that 'in this war neither side is more or less guilty' [my emphasis], because 'the responsibility for declaring the war belongs to all imperialist powers, regardless of which one of them made the first move in the war' (Feb 1941). The only just state which had a care for the interests of the Jewish working class was thought to be the USSR. In addition, according to Hashomer Hatsa'ir, 'the Soviet-German pact of August 1939 was a wise and justified move' (July 1941) [my emphasis]. It allowed the Soviet Union to realise its fundamental goals, which were 'strict neutrality and complete preparation for a struggle with the entire capitalist world, weakened by the war and its consequences.' (May 1941). The Zionists had no doubts about the imminence of such a struggle: 'The moment is near, when the Red Army with the help of the broad masses of workers and peasants will begin its historic march....Jewish working masses consider this this prospect to be their sole realistic hope for national and social liberation' (Proletarisher gedank, published by Po'alei Tsion Left, April 1941).

Wow! The Zionist leaders of the Jewish underground in the Warsaw Ghetto, the heroes of the 1943 uprising, considered Germany and Britain to be equally guilty for the outbreak of the war!

Now that must throw a hefty spanner into the intellectual machinery of many of the members of this forum.

And for those forum members with a penchant for the Soviet Union, there is another big spanner. In April and May 1941, those Zionist leaders were well aware of Stalin's plans to send the Red Army crashing westwards once Germany and Britain had sufficiently weakened each other.

More from Prekerowa (p. 152):

In June 1941 this situation changed fundamentally. According to Zionist activists, at that time the Jewish people finally discovered where their essential self-interest actually lay. 'Among the Jews who, almost to a man, counted on a Soviet victory, the outbreak of war was greeted with great hopes', wrote Governor Ludwig Fischer. 'Many Jews began to don red ties ostentatiously in order to manifest their sympathies for the Soviet Union'. This time their joy was quite understandable.

Given the observable Jewish support for the Soviet Union, and the fact that this large Jewish population, albeit largely confined in ghettos, lay athwart Germany's vital lines of communication to its forces fighting on the Russian Front, is it any wonder that the German Government concluded that the concentration of Jews in Poland constituted a strategic danger that needed to be removed?

Prekerowa quotes from issues of the Hashomer Hatsa'ir publication Jutrznia [Dawn] in February and March 1942 (ie at a date when the deportations of Polish Jews was just beginning):

On the ruins of Fascist barbarism the liberated people of Europe, under the direction of the Soviet Union, will found a truly free European federation - a federation of free nations within the framework of the Socialist Union of Soviets ( 14 February 1942).

A victory for England or for the United States would result in a bourgeois democracy in Europe.........As long as capitalism continues to exist, the Jewish tragedy cannot end.......and it is only the Soviet Union which is capable of bringing about the destruction of capitalism. This is the direction, the only direction, on which the gaze of all those Jewish masses locked up in the ghettos should be fixed (21 february 1942).

Under the banner of victory for the Union of Soviets and a full liberation in Soviet Palestine [my emphasis], Jewish masses will join the battle for a better and more radiant future (21 March 1942).

As it happened, the German Government, in a pre-emptive strike, eliminated the Jewish masses before they could join the battle on the side of the Soviet Union.

Prekerowa continues:

In a lengthy article entitled 'Brothers in Arms', the editors of Jutrznia turned their attention to the Poles for the first time. Reminding them of all the harm which the people in the ghettos had suffered at the hands of informers, Polish police, and rich smugglers who were preying on the isolated and interned Jewish population, they declared that 'at the present time the Jewish and Polish nations are united by the most essential common objective....[Jews] must concentrate their hopes on a Soviet victory and on a settlement of the Jewish masses in Soviet Palestine', and that only 'a Soviet victory and a free Soviet Poland within the framework of the Soviet Union can ensure the realisation of Polish goals'.

No doubt the mass of the Polish population would have been quite happy for the Jewish masses to be settled in Palestine, Soviet or non-Soviet (they would have been oblivious to the wishes of the Palestinian Arabs).

But one doubts that Poles would have agreed with the Jews that the realisation of Polish goals would best be achieved in a "Soviet Poland within the framework of the Soviet Union". In fact, Poles would have been enraged at the idea. Is it any wonder therefore that Poles saw the Jews in their midst as traitors who were attempting to bring about Communist rule in their country and its annexation by the Soviet Union? Is it any wonder that they were relieved and secretly pleased when they saw the German occupiers eliminating this concentration of pro-Soviet population?

Thus, Prekerowa has shown that the leaders of Hashomer Hatsa'ir, the organisation that played the main role in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in April 1943, were pro-Soviet, pro-Communist, and supported the spreading of Communism to Poland.

Agadanik also shows his ignorance of the history of the Jewish underground in the Warsaw Ghetto.

The fact is that preparations for an uprising by the Jewish population of the Warsaw Ghetto began in the Spring of 1942. At that time, the Jewish underground was led and organised by Communists, among whom were Lewartowski and Szmidt.

In May 1942, the Communist leaders of the Jewish Underground tried to set off an uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto for the avowed purpose of assisting the Red Army in its alleged advance by creating chaos in the German rear and cutting the Wehrmacht's supply lines to the Eastern Front.

Leaflets were circulated in the ghetto, calling on the population to rise up in support of the Soviet Union. In those pamphlets there was nothing about "dying with honour"; rather, the motivation for rebellion was to be attacking the enemy's rear and ensuring the victory of the Soviet Union.

A copy of the call to insurrection issued in May 1942 can be found in the book "Faschismus - Getto - Massenmord", which was published in Warsaw in 1960.

The Jewish uprising did not occur in the early summer of 1942 because the German security forces were able to hunt down the Communist leaders of the Jewish Underground in the Warsaw Ghetto and terminate them with extreme prejudice. With the leadership destroyed, the Jewish Underground was unable to start an uprising at that time.

Furthermore, two months later the German authorities began the deportation of the Jews held in the Warsaw Ghetto, thus removing the population basis for a mass uprising.

With the Communist leadership destroyed, the organisation of the Jewish Underground devolved upon Hashomer Hatsa'ir, a Marxist Zionist group which which, while not itself Communist, was nevertheless very pro-Communist in orientation, as Prekerowa has shown.

That is why the uprising, when it finally occurred with one year's delay, was led by activists of Hashomer Hatsa'ir. But the initiative for an uprising had come from Jewish Communists.

[Obserwator]

Now that must throw a hefty spanner into the intellectual machinery of many of the members of this forum.

Not really as communists believed that capitalistic society was doomed to fight each other, so this ideological belief isn't surprising to anyone with a bit of knowledge.

You are seeying things Mills really, everybody knows that belief of communists that Western countries would come to blows, it doesn't prove anything. Furthermore the article doesn't prove you, it even contradicts you because it shows that there was Jewish resistence not involved with communism.
I really fail to see any revelation in a quoted article by a communist who writes a typical for communist thought assesment of the causes of the war.
Furthermore he writes about the start of the war, not moral guilt for actions done in its course.
I also fail to see that all Jews were pro-communists because they wanted Soviet Union to win over Germany, after all SU didn't put them in gass chambers so why wouldn't they want SU to win ?

Given the observable Jewish support for the Soviet Union, and the fact that this large Jewish population, albeit largely confined in ghettos, lay athwart Germany's vital lines of communication to its forces fighting on the Russian Front, is it any wonder that the German Government concluded that the concentration of Jews in Poland constituted a strategic danger that needed to be removed

Mills you seem to be losing a perception of the reality.Did the thought that they supported Soviet Union because German Reich was exterminating them and Soviet forces would mean it would stop crossed your mind ?

As it happened, the German Government, in a pre-emptive strike, eliminated the Jewish masses before they could join the battle on the side of the Soviet Union.

This is madness Mills.Nazis believed that Jews were racially inferior to them, not only that but one hardly explain the murder of Jewish children or elderly, or the murder of gypsies, Poles etc in similar ways.The notion that the Jewish society was part of some communist conspiracy not only belongs to the realm of antisemitc madness, but doesn't stand up to facts, such as that orthodox Jews were persecuted in bolshevik Russia, or that Jews belonged to organisations and parties that weren't communist.

No doubt the mass of the Polish population would have been quite happy for the Jewish masses to be settled in Palestine, Soviet or non-Soviet

This is your own opinion based on prejudice and sterotypes.I and many others would be glad to share our country with people that enrich our culture and society.

But one doubts that Poles would have agreed with the Jews that the realisation of Polish goals would best be achieved in a "Soviet Poland within the framework of the Soviet Union". In fact, Poles would have been enraged at the idea

You can't speak for the Poles, and if you would have a bit of knowledge you would know that in fact there were Poles that did want to be part of Soviet Union(although a minority).Just as you can't speak for Poles, so can't one writer speak for all Jews.The article presents opinions of an invidual, a member of communist party which don't represent the opinions of all the Jews.

Thus, Prekerowa has shown that the leaders of Hashomer Hatsa'ir, the organisation that played the main role in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in April 1943, were pro-Soviet, pro-Communist, and supported the spreading of Communism to Poland.

Nope she shows that there were opinions like that among jewish people.Your claim that the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto wanted to spread communism remains I am afraid amongst the realm of absurdity.
Two Jewish resistence groups in the Ghetto were formed by marging of several parties, and although some of them were communists, they were also others that were right wing parties like Betar. Jews belonging to such parties were arrested by NKVD btw, so your theory about Jews=Communists is totaly wrong.
http://www.betar.org/history/hist-i.htm

My father's name was Joel Koniarsky (Yoel in Poland). He was born in Wielun Poland on March 16, 1917. He joined the Betar at an early age. He became the youngest Betar Commander in Poland. He had the pleasure of meeting and listening to Zev Jabotinsky when he was young. The year after the Third Kinus, my parents were captured by the Russian forces as they tried to escape from the Germans as they attached their small Polish town bordering Germany. My parents lived in a Soviet concentration camp till 1944. It's there where I was born in 1941. We finally made it to Wrotzlaw (known as Breslau during the German occupation). Very shortly, the NKVD infiltrated Poland. My father was very active in the Irgun at the time and was arrested by the NKVD in an attempt to infiltrate the movement with the hope of helping establish a Communist Jewish State in Palestine. My father was tortured for several days and finally released with the intent of being watched. My family and I were followed for over a year by the NKVD

I fail to see Mill's how your obsession about Jewish communist conspiracy contributes to this topic.

[michael mills]

Two Jewish resistence groups in the Ghetto were formed by marging of several parties, and although some of them were communists, they were also others that were right wing parties like Betar. Jews belonging to such parties were arrested by NKVD btw, so your theory about Jews=Communists is totaly wrong.

The fact that members of Jewish rightist political organisations such as Betar were arrested by the NKVD does not disprove the organic relationship between Jews and Communism.

At most it was yet another example of the vicious conflict between Jewish Leftists and Jewish Rightists.

The Jewish Bolsheviks/Communists were not the only Leftist Jews who persecuted Rightist Jews. Even Leftist Jewish nationalists such as the Labour Zionists were prepared to resort to the most extreme measures to try to crush their Rightist rivals.

For example, in 1948, during the first war between the Jews and Arabs inPalestine, there was an armed conflict between the Haggana, the armed force of the Labour Zionists, who at that time dominated the Yisshuv, and the combined forces of Etzel and Lechi, the armed force of the right-wing Zionist Cherut Party, led by Menachem Begin.

The Cherut Party had arranged for a shipment of arms to be landed at Tel Aviv on the boat the "Altalena". When Ben-Gurion heard about the shipment, he ordered the Haggana to attack the "Altalena" and seize the arms. There are also suspicions that he had ordered the assassination of Begin, who however escaped by diving overboard. The attempt to seize the "Altalena" resulted in heavy fighting with a lot of casualties.

If Leftist Jewish nationalists would launch an armed attack on Rightist Jewish nationalists at a time when they were involved in a war with non-Jews, is it any wonder that Jewish Bolksheviks (who were not Jewish nationalists in the way that the Zionists were) would arrest Jewish Rightists?

It needs to be borne in mind that although by 1945 the top leadership of the Soviet Union and of the NKVD was no longer Jewish, the Communist regime foisted on Poland by Stalin was filled with Jews like Berman and Minc. The Communist political police in post-war Poland, the Urzad Bezpieczenstwa (Bezpieka) was also full of Jews, obsessed with taking revenge on the Polish nationalists who they believed had betrayed the Jewish people.

[tom_deba]

The quest of Polish legion became very interesting on this forum.

I would like to add one little question:

Could Brygada Swietokrzyska of NSZ forces have been a nucleus of Polish Legion if it had established relationships with Germans earlier or war had lasted longer?

/tom/

[Obserwator]

NSZ-not really, they did consider Germans a enemy state together with Soviet Union, their opposition to Home Army came with its support of Soviet war effort, basicly they supported a two front war.At the ending of the war they arranged for safe passage together with German units, but engaged them in combat when they encountered concentration camp.

[Agadanik]

Could Brygada Swietokrzyska of NSZ forces have been a nucleus of Polish Legion if it had established relationships with Germans earlier or war had lasted longer?/

Tom,

This is a speculative question, so one could argue that anything is possible. But – I really don’t think that Narodowe Sily Zbrojne (NSZ), or, for that matter, any other representative organization in Poland, was willing to collaborate with the Nazis.

This may have been possible at the beginning of the war, before the atrocities perpetrated by the Germans in Poland united the nation in its anti-Nazi stance, regardless of the political coloring of specific groups. The case of Andrzej Swietlicki and his NOR shows that at the very beginning of occupation there were entities prepared to seek such alliance. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 085#577085

But this has changed quickly, and, in any case, the Nazis weren’t interested in creating a Polish Legion. The story of Boleslaw Piasecki is a good illustration of how the political goals changed for those who at the beginning of the war may have thought that some form of collaborative existence is possible. There are testimonies that in October ’39 Piasecki tried to negotiate with the Nazis his proposal to create a reduced Polish state. When his approaches were rejected and he himself arrested, Piasecki quickly turned to anti-Nazi resistance and went on to lead Konfederacja Narodu and its underground military formation, Uderzeniowe Bataliony Kadrowe (UBK).

In this thread there is a discussion of two or three cases of tactical cooperation between Polish underground and the Nazis. The evacuation of Brygada Swietokrzyska in January 1945 is another such example. But these few cases, limited to local initiatives, were without exception unacceptable to Poland’s government-in-exile, and throughout the war there were no instances of the Polish side accepting any form of strategic military alliance with the Germans.

This has not changed even at the end of the war, when it became apparent that Poland will find itself in the sphere of Soviet dominance. On January 1, 1945, Michal Zawisza, head of Dept VI of Narodowe Sily Zbrojne, issued a comprehensive instruction to all educational officers of his formation. It stated (my translation):

[...]Each NSZ soldier must know and understand the following: Germans are a mortal enemy of the Polish Nation – therefore hostile attitude of Poles toward the Germans is compulsory in any circumstances. This maintaining of a proper attitude of the Polish Nation toward the Germans is of particular importance in this final stage of the war – because many elements, including the Germans themselves, will attempt to weaken our approach and resistance in this matter.[...]

Source: Leszek Zebrowski, Narodowe Sily Zbrojne, vol.3, Warsaw 1996, p. 123.

In one of the postings in this thread I described the case of Lt. Swida-Lech, who in December 1943, as a commander of an Armia Krajowa partisan unit in Western Belorussia, reached a stand-off agreement with Wehrmacht and received supplies of arms and ammunition from them in Jan, Feb and March ’44. In early March, Swida-Lech was sentenced to death (subsequently commuted) by a specially convened military court of the AK. Interestingly enough, the court was headed by the same Boleslaw Piasecki, who in October '39 had hoped to negotiate limited Polish statehood with the Germans. This perhaps best illustrates the evolution of attitudes of those Poles who at the beginning of the war believed some accomodation with the Nazis was possible.

rgds a

[michael mills]

Agadanik wrote:

There are testimonies that in October ’39 Piasecki tried to negotiate with the Nazis his proposal to create a reduced Polish state.

Agadanik has got it wrong here.

The concept of an autonomous reduced Polish state, a new "Congress Poland", was actually a German idea, and was implicit in the agreement on the division of Polish territory between Germany and the Soviet Union on 23 August 1939.

According to that agreement, both Germany and the Soviet Union would be free to annex Polish territory that they considered belonged to them. In the case of Germany that would be Danzig, West Prussia, the Posen Province and East Upper Silesia; in the case of the Soviet Union it would be the territory east of the Curzon Line.

The remainder of Poland was to form a rump state with limited sovereignty, under both German and Soviet occupation. The demarcation line between the German and Soviet occupation zones was to run along the Vistula River; hence Warsaw would be divided.

There are many references in German documents from September 1939 referring to the Polish rump entity (Staatlichkeit) that was to be set up under the joint domination of Germany and Soviet Union.

The reason why the reduced Polish puppet state did not come into existence was an action by Stalin.

After Soviet forces occupied the eastern territory of Poland from 17 September 1939 onward, Stalin send a message to Germany vetoing the concept of a rump Polish state, which he said would become a future cause of tension between Germany and the Soviet Union.

Instead Stalin suggested that the Soviet Union would surrender its zone of occupation of the proposed Polish rump state, the area between to the Bug and Vistula Rivers, to Germany, in return for Germany's surrender of Lithuania to the Soviet sphere of influence (in the agreement of 23 September 1939, Lithuania was to be part of the German sphere of influence).

In that way, all Polish ethnic territory would come under German control, while the Soviet Union would annex the territory east of the Bug River (and the Curzon Line in general), in which Poles were a minority.

Nevertheless, Germany still entertained the possibility of setting up a Polish puppet state on the territory it occupied, which now stretched to the Bug and San Rivers. The official title of this area was "Generalgouvernement der besetzten polnischen Gebiete", the same title which had been used when Germany occupied Russian Poland in 1915. The title shows that Germay still considered the area to be Polish entity under German occupation.

However, in October 1940, Hitler ordered that the appellation "der bestezten polnischen Gebiete" be dropped, indicating that the idea of a rump Polish puppet state had now been abandoned.

The background to the above events is given by the book "Nazi-Soviet Relations", published by the United States State Department in 1948 ("Nazi-Soviet Relations, 1939-1941 : Documents from the Archives of the German Foreign Office", edited by Raymond James Sontag and James Stuart Beddie, published [Washington] : Department of State, 1948). It is a compilation of captured German documents, and includes Soviet messages to Germany which reveal the Soviet role in the suppression of the concept of a rump Polish state.

It may well be that the German authorities had some preliminary discussions with Boleslaw Piasecki as a potential head of the envisioned Polish puppet state. They also approached Wincenty Witos, head of the Peasant Party.

But all those approaches came to nothing because of Stalin's opposition to any residual Polish political entity, which he saw as being inevitably anti-Soviet and a focus for Polish ethnic resistance in the territories east of the Curzon line annexed by the Soviet Union.

Stalin wanted Germany to co-operate in the crushing of all Polish nationalism, not only the anti-German variant of Polish nationalism but also the anti-Soviet variant. And that is what the German authorities did in the AB-Aktion of April 1940, at the same time as the Soviet authorities were executing Polish officers in their hands and deporting ethnic Poles from the annexed territories of West Belorussia and West Ukraine.

The final German abandonment of a Polish puppet state (which was the reverse of German policy during the First World War) must be seen as the outcome of Stalin's opposition, and his insistence on German co-operation in the extirpation of anti-Soviet sentiment among the Polish political class.

Another good book to consult on the above events is Professor Richard Raack's "Stalin's drive to the West, 1938-1945 : the Origins of the Cold War" (Stanford, Calif. : Stanford University Press, 1995).

[Agadanik]

Agadanik has got it wrong here.

Michael, please clarify your objections or disagreements - I don’t quite understand what you're refering to. As far as I can see, nothing you say here relates to my posting.


Historians are in agreement as to the idea of a skeletal Polish state Hitler contemplated – I don’t see anything here one could dispute. It is also true that Stalin was the one who torpedoed the concept. But this is widely known, and Bullock, Davies and Weinberg all describe it in some detail, and Polish historians do too. Weinberg says:

The German government had left open the possibility of some minimal rump-Poland from the beginning, but […] dropped this idea as soon the Soviet Union indicated that it would be happier without such a contraption […] Stalin informed the Germans on September 19 that he had now concluded that it would be better not to allow any kind of Polish state – a proposal the Germans promptly accepted […]

Gerhard Weinberg, The World at Arms, Cambridge University Press 1994, pp. 59-60.


None of this was known to Piasecki or Swietlicki, who in September and October 1939 approached the Germans with their own collaborative concepts. However, the German reign of terror, beginning with the Wawer executions of December 27, quickly illustrated to even the most pro-German Poles the real dimension of Nazi plans for Poland.

The case of Piasecki is a good example. Before WW2 he led Poland’s most extreme and viciously antisemitic group, ONR-Falanga, whose methods were based in part on Nazi models. As late as the Spring of 1939, he advocated a military alliance between Poland and Germany, including armed support for a German-Soviet war. Yet, by June 1940 he was already active in the Polish underground and continued in this role until the end of the war.
Source: A.Dudek, G.Pytel, Boleslaw Piasecki, London 1990
.

[Agadanik]

The final German abandonment of a Polish puppet state (which was the reverse of German policy during the First World War) must be seen as the outcome of Stalin's opposition, and his insistence on German co-operation in the extirpation of anti-Soviet sentiment among the Polish political class.

There is something I don't understand here, Michael. After June 22, 1941, Hitler was certainly at liberty to do whatever he wanted in Poland, without the evil Stalin jerking his chain. What happened to the wonderful idea of the Polish puppet state Hitler was so committed to?

Please elaborate. I look forward to your explanation.
.

[Ostuf Charlemagne]

Don't lose time about Hitler and the poles ,etc.....everybody knows that most part of Pole was annexed to the greater Reich as german territories and that german occupation was more than heavy on the poles .

A better question would be the following one :

The western countries started a world war supposedly to free Poland from the germans .
But in 1945 Poland was occupied by the russians -and stayed so as a warsaw Pact puppet - until 1990 . Here ,in 1945 ,neither the brits nor the frenchs cared about the poles ...How strange !?

May it be that Poland was only a pretext to start a war aganist a regime (the National-Socialist one ) whose succesful and radical social achievments were putting in danger the banks ,the bankers everywhere and their Golden Throne ?

Comebacking with poles at german side ,it existed the Sonderdienst ,under command of the local HSSPFs , a militia style formation ,originally for polish volksdeutschen ,but lots of "real" poles served within .
Thewn it was lots of individuals poles in german divisions ,for instance it was some of them within the 117 Jaegerdivision in Greece (I have some names) and it existe in Ukrania a Schuma btallion formed exclusively with poles .One of the officers who served with this schuma unit was Erich Biebl ,a czech national who ended the war as a Waffen-Untersturmfuehrer der SS within the russian 30.SS division / brigade of Ostubaf Sieglind .
For more infos about those units ,comrade Deba ,e-mail me .
Regards .

[Ostuf Charlemagne]

More infos :Polish Sonderdienst had a strenght of 7 batallions and one Cavalry squadron and were attached/garrisoned to each big cities (Lemberg , etc ....) Those Btls ,and companies were under command of either german Orpo officers and / or Sipo-SD.

[Obserwator]

A better question would be the following one :

The western countries started a world war supposedly to free Poland from the germans .

The western powers started a war because Germany violated the western border of Poland.

But in 1945 Poland was occupied by the russians -and stayed so as a warsaw Pact puppet - until 1990 . Here ,in 1945 ,neither the brits nor the frenchs cared about the poles ...How strange !?

You are wrong. International agreements during the war made by British and USA with USSR have forced USSR to provide a free and fair elections in which Poland would elect its parties.So yes Allies did made some effort towards. After USSR falsfied elections USA helped opposition members with escape and financed many liberation movements in Poland.

May it be that Poland was only a pretext to start a war aganist a regime (the National-Socialist one ) whose succesful and radical social achievments were putting in danger the banks ,the bankers everywhere and their Golden Throne ?

Now that's a rather absurd conspiracy theory quite similar to madness of antisemitism.And what is this Golden Throne ?

Comebacking with poles at german side ,it existed the Sonderdienst ,under command of the local HSSPFs , a militia style formation ,originally for polish volksdeutschen ,but lots of "real" poles served within
Thewn it was lots of individuals poles in german divisions
.

Poles in certain areas were forced to join German military, especially during the later stages of war.When captured they usually joined Polish Forces

[Allen Milcic]

*A handful of off-topic posts and personal remarks were deleted by the Moderator.* Gentlemen, you can disagree about the content of a person's posting without resorting to insults and personal comments - let's keep this discussion on-track and polite. Thank you.

Allen/