Polish soldiers in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS?
to revive an old, instead starting a new thread, i just browsed the very interesting internet-clips of the Deutsche Wochenschau and found two spots (in polish) about the building of the polish legion. It was new to me, that such a unit did exist and that there was a official Deutsche Wochenschau in polish language, but as an instrument of propaganda it makes of course sense.
Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht
Given the antipathy Poles have traditionally had for Russians, did any of them volunteer for the German armed forces. Also given how desperate the Germans were for troops in the latter part of the war, did they make any efforts to form Polish units?
If you go by "Forgotten Axis", then a lot of "ethnic Germans" from Poland that were draftet into the Wehrmacht were actually Poles.
Additionally according to Pantenius, who headed a regiment within 337th Volksgrenadier division during the period 1944-45 and after the war wrote a book combining his personal experiences with operational reflexions (titled "Letzte Schlacht an der Ostfront"), a considerable number of Poles "volunteered" as Hiwis for the German forces in Poland in late 1944, however most of them deserted when the Soviet Vistula-Oder operation began.
Additionally according to Pantenius, who headed a regiment within 337th Volksgrenadier division during the period 1944-45 and after the war wrote a book combining his personal experiences with operational reflexions (titled "Letzte Schlacht an der Ostfront"), a considerable number of Poles "volunteered" as Hiwis for the German forces in Poland in late 1944, however most of them deserted when the Soviet Vistula-Oder operation began.
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Benoit Douville
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Read a previous topic:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45385
From "Exile Armies', ed Matthew Bennett, Paul Latawski. 2005:
An estimated 300,000 Poles were conscripted into the German Armed Forces. From these 90,000 POW were recruited into the Polish Army of the West. They were an important source of manpower, replacing casualties. Being battlefield veterans, they required little training. They also were a source of manpower for the Polish Army of the East; a number is not provided in the book.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45385
From "Exile Armies', ed Matthew Bennett, Paul Latawski. 2005:
An estimated 300,000 Poles were conscripted into the German Armed Forces. From these 90,000 POW were recruited into the Polish Army of the West. They were an important source of manpower, replacing casualties. Being battlefield veterans, they required little training. They also were a source of manpower for the Polish Army of the East; a number is not provided in the book.
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Stoigniew
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Hmmm... Poles don't have traditional antyphaty to Russians. We just never wanted to be a part of Russia, but have nothing against Russians... 
IMHO there was no Polish volunteers in Wehrmacht. Poles considered ,,volksdeutsche'' by Germans were simply drafted. I've heard stories about Silesians and Kaschubs (3rd category on volksliste) who had the choice: concentration camp for whole family or joining the Wehrmacht...
IMHO there was no Polish volunteers in Wehrmacht. Poles considered ,,volksdeutsche'' by Germans were simply drafted. I've heard stories about Silesians and Kaschubs (3rd category on volksliste) who had the choice: concentration camp for whole family or joining the Wehrmacht...
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Allen Milcic
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Serbian boy
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Tom Nutter
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Poles in Wehrmacht
I was contacted a few months ago by a man who was trying to find information about his father's service. His father and his family were Poles, not Volksdeutsche, who lived in Danzig. In 1944 the Wehrmacht conscripted his father, evidently much against his father's will---but his father wasn't given much choice in the matter. His father wound up in a Volksgrenadier nebelwerfer unit, and fought in the Battle of the Bulge. After his unit was destroyed his father sat down on a tree stump in the forest; he expected to be shot on sight when the Americans arrived, but instead they took him prisoner.
I expect the experience of this man's father was not atypical.
Kind regards.
Tom
I expect the experience of this man's father was not atypical.
Kind regards.
Tom
Hi guys,
More about Poles serving in Wehrmacht (from NARA files):
24 October 1944 Hitler agreement on service of Poles in Wehrmacht as Hiwi, according to rules for Osttruppen. Distinguishing feature had to be worn on left forearm white band with inscription "Im Dienst der deutschen Wehrmacht". [NARA T-175/22/2527445. ] 4 December 1944 Himmler allowed on stretching this permission on Waffen SS. [NARA T-175/22/2527441].
Recruitment to Wehrmacht one began in November and according to state on 31 December 1944 in two army groups defending oneself on territory of Poland was ca. 6000 Poles. According to data Organizational Department of Land Armies (Heer) of 19 December 1944 r in HGr „A" was 5000 Poles, and HGr "Mitte" - 1000 Poles [NARA T-78/432/6404728]. About clean Polish units still however one did not want even to listen. Hitler attended, that such units at the first opportunity would turn traitor and turned weapons against Germans.
However were and such Poles, whiches applied to Wehrmacht even in last months of war. Command of Grenadier Ersatz und Ausbildungs Regiment 523 reported 15 of January 1945:
"From certain time apply to regiment Polish volunteers from of instruction camp of Organization Todt in Falkensee with will become soldier of Wehrmacht. Are this first of all young peasants in age 18 - 23 years, knowing a little language German and according to manager of camp after end of instruction would want to enter to Wehrmacht or Waffen SS". [NARAnd T-311/169/7220427].
Instead from notes from 3 March 1945, sent to Organizational Department OKH from region of Berlin and Potsdam, results, that one accepted to German armies a dozen or so Poles applying "to fights with Bolshevism". [NARA T-311/169/7220425].
Bestreg.
Jarek
More about Poles serving in Wehrmacht (from NARA files):
24 October 1944 Hitler agreement on service of Poles in Wehrmacht as Hiwi, according to rules for Osttruppen. Distinguishing feature had to be worn on left forearm white band with inscription "Im Dienst der deutschen Wehrmacht". [NARA T-175/22/2527445. ] 4 December 1944 Himmler allowed on stretching this permission on Waffen SS. [NARA T-175/22/2527441].
Recruitment to Wehrmacht one began in November and according to state on 31 December 1944 in two army groups defending oneself on territory of Poland was ca. 6000 Poles. According to data Organizational Department of Land Armies (Heer) of 19 December 1944 r in HGr „A" was 5000 Poles, and HGr "Mitte" - 1000 Poles [NARA T-78/432/6404728]. About clean Polish units still however one did not want even to listen. Hitler attended, that such units at the first opportunity would turn traitor and turned weapons against Germans.
However were and such Poles, whiches applied to Wehrmacht even in last months of war. Command of Grenadier Ersatz und Ausbildungs Regiment 523 reported 15 of January 1945:
"From certain time apply to regiment Polish volunteers from of instruction camp of Organization Todt in Falkensee with will become soldier of Wehrmacht. Are this first of all young peasants in age 18 - 23 years, knowing a little language German and according to manager of camp after end of instruction would want to enter to Wehrmacht or Waffen SS". [NARAnd T-311/169/7220427].
Instead from notes from 3 March 1945, sent to Organizational Department OKH from region of Berlin and Potsdam, results, that one accepted to German armies a dozen or so Poles applying "to fights with Bolshevism". [NARA T-311/169/7220425].
Bestreg.
Jarek
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polskifone
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According to Colonel Kuropieska, Warsaw Gov's Military Attache in London 1945, the number of "Germans" (viz ex-German Army) in the Polish Army under British Command was:
1st Polish Corps
2,000 : Recruited North Africa
33,192 : Recruited from D-Day to end 1944
15,439 : 1st Jan. 1944 to End April 1945
4,000 : May and June 1945
------
54,631
2nd Polish Corps
2,500 : Recruited up to June 1944
14,000 : Recruited Second half of 1944
18,000 : Recruited first half of 1945
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34,500
=========
Total : 89.131
The British War Office gives a much lower estimate for 1 Corps:
Ex-Wehrmacht + Todt
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1st Armd Div (BAOR) 4,149 + 96 = 4,245 out of 15,000
1st Para Brig (BAOR) 1,984 + 55 = 2,039 out of 4,000
1st Corps (UK) 16,200 out of 30,000
====== ======
22,484 out of 39,000 Most of these "Germans" were being trained in Britain and did not see front line service.
My PhD Thesishttp://www.angelfire.com/ok2/polisharmy/chapter6.html
1st Polish Corps
2,000 : Recruited North Africa
33,192 : Recruited from D-Day to end 1944
15,439 : 1st Jan. 1944 to End April 1945
4,000 : May and June 1945
------
54,631
2nd Polish Corps
2,500 : Recruited up to June 1944
14,000 : Recruited Second half of 1944
18,000 : Recruited first half of 1945
------
34,500
=========
Total : 89.131
The British War Office gives a much lower estimate for 1 Corps:
Ex-Wehrmacht + Todt
----------
1st Armd Div (BAOR) 4,149 + 96 = 4,245 out of 15,000
1st Para Brig (BAOR) 1,984 + 55 = 2,039 out of 4,000
1st Corps (UK) 16,200 out of 30,000
====== ======
22,484 out of 39,000 Most of these "Germans" were being trained in Britain and did not see front line service.
My PhD Thesishttp://www.angelfire.com/ok2/polisharmy/chapter6.html
Last edited by polskifone on 10 Dec 2005, 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
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polskifone
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According to a report from Major Gondowicz of Warsaw's Repatriation Mission in Germany to HQ BAOR in November, 1946, there were four classes on the Volksliste:
Class 1 - Full German. These people belonged to pre-war German associations were fully German and had 'Reichsdeutsche' identity cards. These people had no right of repatriation to Poland and had lost their right to citizenship and rehabilitation to Polish society.
Class 2 - 50% German. The Nazis issued blue identity papers to these people who had a "positive attitude" to Germany and the German occupation. These people had lost their citizenship but could reapply for it after a process of rehabilitation.
Class 3 - German by name, origin or ancestry and holding green identity papers. It was possible for this class to return to Poland and sign a declaration of 'Polishness' - no rehabilitation was needed.
Class 4 - The holders of yellow identity papers could best be described as 'Germanic' rather than German. These were the least trusted by the Nazis. According to Gondowicz, a return to Poland after the war depended on which class the Volksdeutsche belonged to. He went on: "It should be made clear that enlistment on the "Volksliste" could take place only on base [sic] of a voluntarily signed application." This, as Gondowicz probably knew, was not strictly true. Names very often appeared on the Volksliste without the consent of the owner. Very often fear promoted people to sign and often, given the harsh terms of the Nazi occupation, the promise of better conditions were enough incentive for people to sign up. Franciszek Janikowski was a Pomeranian who had been conscripted to the German Army before joining the Polish 1st Armoured Division. His appearance on the Volksliste was typical:
"My father worked on the railways. He had no land and no fortune so he was afraid. When they took them away in 1942 and asked who doesn't want to be Germanised? Nobody answered. My father signed and, as he told me later, he thought: I have a son and he is going to go to war...."
My PhD Thesis
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/ok2/polis ... pter3.html
Class 1 - Full German. These people belonged to pre-war German associations were fully German and had 'Reichsdeutsche' identity cards. These people had no right of repatriation to Poland and had lost their right to citizenship and rehabilitation to Polish society.
Class 2 - 50% German. The Nazis issued blue identity papers to these people who had a "positive attitude" to Germany and the German occupation. These people had lost their citizenship but could reapply for it after a process of rehabilitation.
Class 3 - German by name, origin or ancestry and holding green identity papers. It was possible for this class to return to Poland and sign a declaration of 'Polishness' - no rehabilitation was needed.
Class 4 - The holders of yellow identity papers could best be described as 'Germanic' rather than German. These were the least trusted by the Nazis. According to Gondowicz, a return to Poland after the war depended on which class the Volksdeutsche belonged to. He went on: "It should be made clear that enlistment on the "Volksliste" could take place only on base [sic] of a voluntarily signed application." This, as Gondowicz probably knew, was not strictly true. Names very often appeared on the Volksliste without the consent of the owner. Very often fear promoted people to sign and often, given the harsh terms of the Nazi occupation, the promise of better conditions were enough incentive for people to sign up. Franciszek Janikowski was a Pomeranian who had been conscripted to the German Army before joining the Polish 1st Armoured Division. His appearance on the Volksliste was typical:
"My father worked on the railways. He had no land and no fortune so he was afraid. When they took them away in 1942 and asked who doesn't want to be Germanised? Nobody answered. My father signed and, as he told me later, he thought: I have a son and he is going to go to war...."
My PhD Thesis
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/ok2/polis ... pter3.html
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polskifone
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Just a final note of historical irony...
During the war thousands of Poles were turned German through no fault of their own...
After the war a large number of Germans, Ukranians and Balts - war criminals among them - escaped justice by claiming to be Poles. The Demobilisation camps of Britain had more than a few SS hiding their blood group tattoos in the showers!
History makes for interesting, if a little depressing, reading!!
During the war thousands of Poles were turned German through no fault of their own...
After the war a large number of Germans, Ukranians and Balts - war criminals among them - escaped justice by claiming to be Poles. The Demobilisation camps of Britain had more than a few SS hiding their blood group tattoos in the showers!
History makes for interesting, if a little depressing, reading!!