Polish soldiers in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS?

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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tom_deba
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by tom_deba » 22 Nov 2009 15:30

An interesting story of group of Poles forced to serve as auxiliary unit in Wehrmacht:

http://www.echodnia.eu/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /674702706

Artur Szulc
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Artur Szulc » 22 Nov 2009 16:07

Able,

What you write is true, my understanding of enligsh is limited. I do fail to understand certain nuances and things like that.

But this I do know, and was thaught at university: researching and writing history is like doing a puzzle. One finds bits and pieces of information from different kinds of sources, primary and secondary (as You well know). After that one analysis the gathered information. What can be confirmed and what must be regarded as probable, and what can be ruled out as untrue.

I was also thaught critical thinking in university, and our, well most of them, professors demanded that we did not belive things without a critical examination.
There never will be proof absolute either way.
That depends. If you can find a statement by a surrendering German POW from Monte Cassino that Polish forces machine gunned down surrendering Poles in German service than the whole thing changes.
Have you found other Polish vets that can confirm those killings?

What I ment by that rasist comment, was that claiming a opinion (without any evidence) that every soldier in the Red army raped German women can be rasist towards russians and other ethnic gropus fighting in the Red army. You know, the hords from the East and all kinds of BS.
Best regards,
Artur

Able
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Able » 22 Nov 2009 19:48

My English is limited Artur.
If I live for 1000 years, it will still be limited, but less so.

Research is intuitive Artur.

Professors have a living to make.
They also wrote the exams.

What do you know of Galileo Artur?

You raised the racist ghost Artur, incidentally, the correct word is racialist.
Cyclists like cycles, motorists like motors, physicists like physics, racists like races.
Not enough people know that.

In this context, the correct English word for German in German in service is nazi.
There are longer versions if you are a bit squeamish about calling a spade a spade.

Just as one swallow doesn't make a summer, one nazi POW's say so would prove a point.
If you want to know more about the Allied Poles who machine gunned nazi Poles, I suggest you ask him.
You may learn more than you expect.

Ex nazi-German don't enjoy a great reputation for honesty in the UK Artur.
"All these German professional men, doctors, lawyers, and so on seemed teh same in their smug hypocrisy. None of them liked the Nazis, but all had their certificates of membership hung on teh walls of their studies or drawing rooms, and all of them were too stupid to take them down when they talked to a British War correspondent about their hatred of Nazism'.

Yank fighting men didn't think much of them either
'I didn't really believe atrocity stories until I had been in France a while. Now I know why the Germans fight so stubbornly even when they seem to have lost the war. They don't Want to take the rap for what they have done.
The Germans know how much the people hate them. When they surrender, most Germans say, "We are regular army—not SS." Maybe they feel a little less guilty.
No actor on earth could have imitated the thorough contempt and disgust and hatred that was on the face of every French child who watched German prisoners march by. And it was awful to see the grief and horror of the bereaved as they forced the Germans to dig up the bodies of their victims arid carry them away for decent burial. You never heard the word "Nazi." The word was "Boche" and it was spat out, not as a name but as an epithet.
You can't be expected to believe such stuff until you have seen it. Once you've seen it, you will understand why the krauts preferred to surrender to the Americans, whose women were safe at home.'

The War Correspondant also wrote something relevant to my previous letter Artur.
'On my way back to file my story I passed hundreds of young Germans, who, by their carriage, showed clearly that a few days ago they had been part of the German Army. Now they were slinking off home in stolen or borrowed civilian clothes. We were too busy to check up on civilians, as the roads were becoming more and more congested each day as millions of prisoners of war and slave labour made their way back.'

If one doesn't indentify a race, one cannot be negatively racialist Artur.
Racialist needs direction otherwise it would be illegal for us to allow other races privilegs over our own people.

jola
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by jola » 23 Nov 2009 09:51

I stated from the outset that I repeated what a vet told me.
I left you to assess what he said.

I chose not to produce any supporting evidence.
I left it to you to investigate rather than trying to lift the roof of your head in order to pour knopwledge in.

So get off you backside and investigate.
Or drink up your beer, get on your horse, and get out of town.

Unless I find your next offering stimulating Jola, I will ignore it.
I hope you find this stimulating. Your little story about the vet with no name, and what he told you, can be dismissed as bar talk.

I think someone needs to read the forum rules to you. No one is here to do pet projects for you about "nazi Poles." BTW, do you use the term Nazi Jews also when referring to Jewish collaborators?

Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 14 Feb 2010 21:37

"W 1940 roku wziyni mnie do niymieckigo wojska. W jednym roku szeł żech na Paryż, a w drugim na Moskwa. Na ta Moskwa fajnie sie maszyrowało, bo było lato. Ale jak przyszła zima, niyjedyn z nos przeklon dziyń, że przyszedł na świat. Jo tam był ciężko ranny i dostołech sie do niewole. Do dom przyszło, żech jest zaginiony. Toż w kobiórskim kościele zrobili mi już pogrzeb. A jo - dzięka Bogu - wylizał sie z ran i zostołech niywolnikiym, swoji żech odrobił i doczekał szczęśliwie końca. W 1947 roku wypuścili nos."

"In 1940 they conscripted me to the German army. In one year I was marching on Paris, and in the next year towards Moscow. It was fine to march on Moscow, because it was Summer. But when the Winter came, many of us cursed the day, when they were born. I was heavily wounded there and I got captured. A message to my home arrived, that I had been missing. They even organized my funeral in the forest of Kobiór. And I - thank God - pulled through from my wounds and became a slave, I worked out my job and happily reached the end. In 1947 they released us."

Ludwik Machalica from Kobiór (in Upper Silesia).

"Szeł na nich ruski atak, ćma ich było. W bunkrze, kaj sie bronili, wszyscy byli wyzbijani. Ino Robert jakimś cudym żył. Siedzioł taki ogłupiały i rzykoł do Panienki, żeby Rusy z nim niy skończyły. Bo ta nie było u nich pardonu. Mioł jednak żyć. Dali mu spokój. A przy Rusach było dużo Poloków. I tak sie chneda dostoł do polskigo wojska pod Berlinga."

"They were under the attack of Ruskies, there were plenty of them. In the bunker, where they were defending, all were killed. Only Robert by some miracle was still alive. He was sitting so dazed and praying to the Lady Mary, asking Her to save him from Rusy. There was no mercy among them. But he was to live. They let him live. And there were many Poles with Rusy. And that's how soon after that he got to the Polish army under general Berling."

Helena Uszok from Bojszowy (in Upper Silesia) about her husband Robert Uszok.

"Z pociągu, który odjechał z Hanoweru, zostało nos jeszcze sześciu. Reszta - wszyscy zabici. Amerykony biją w dzień i noc. Ziemia się trzęsie, wszystko się pali, nawet kamienie. Kryjemy się w dziurach wykutych w skale, a krew się na nos leje, jak woda z deszczu. Wszędzie darci, wołani, płacz. Mamo, żegnom się z Wami, bo już z tej wojny niy powróca. Już Wos nigdy niy zobocza, ani moich Bojszów. Niech będzie pochwalony Jezus Chrystus."

"From the train, which arrived at Hannover, only six of us remained. The rest - all of them killed. Americans are firing days and nights. The ground is shaking, everything is burning, even stones. We hide in holes forged in the rock, and blood is pouring on us, like rainwater. Everywhere screams, cries, tears. Mom, I am saying good bye to You, because I won't come back from this war. I will never see You again, neither my Bojszowy. Praised be Jesus Christ!"

Robert Czarnynoga from the village of Bojszowy - his last letter to his mother.

Robert was KIA during the battle of Monte Cassino and is buried there.

Another inhabitant of Bojszowy - Alojzy Lysko - wrote a letter to his wife in October 1943:

"Leża w ruskim polu w dziurze i pisza tyn list z wielkim strachym, bo mi kule nad łebym gwizdajom. Niy gorsz się, Moja Żono, że Ci mało pisza, bo jo musza maszerować każdy dziyń po 20 kilometrów, to mi się na wieczór nic niy chce. Tela mnie ino cieszy, że maszeruja bliżyj chałpy."

"I am lying in a Ruski field in a trench and writing this letter with great fear, because bullets are whistling over my head. Don't resent, My Wife, that I don't write much to You, because I have to march 20 kilometres each day, so I am very tired each evening. The only thing which pleases me, is that each day I march closer to my home."

Alojzy Lysko was KIA on 12th of January 1944 near the village Jamki in western Ukraine.

300 - 320 inhabitants of the small village of Bojszowy in Upper Silesia served in the Wehrmacht during WW2 (yet in March of 1940 all Gornoslazacy born between 1894 and 1926 were listed in the German registery of conscripts). Of them 60 were KIA on the fronts of WW2 and further 40 were seriously WIA. Only 1 of these 320 was a volunteer.

Bojszowy was just one of many similar villages in Upper Silesia.

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Askold
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Re: polish volunteer books??

Post by Askold » 22 Feb 2010 10:52

Color photos of Polish police interrogating Jewish man

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George Lepre
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by George Lepre » 22 Feb 2010 23:26

An post by Able and two responses have been removed.

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Askold
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Re: polish volunteer books??

Post by Askold » 24 Feb 2010 01:20

A supposed photo of Polish volunteers form a russian site:
http://www.runivers.ru/doc/d2.php?PORTAL_ID=7538

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Polish police in the ghetto:
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Working with the German police:
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P.S. Came across interesting book, did not have a chance to read it:
Mazurkiewiz S. Antologia zdrady narodowej I polskiej kolaboracji 1939 — 1945. Krakow, 1999.
(Anthology of betrayal and polish collaboration 1939-1945, Cracow, 1999)

Able
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Able » 05 Mar 2010 11:38

.
I've just come across this account by Rhoda Woodward.
Rhoda worked in the NAAFI on an airfield in England during WW2.

She talks about Poles who did not join the Wehrmacht.

" . . . there was a lot of Polish personal. Often, the new arrivals, had come straight from the Concentration Camps where they had suffered terrible injuries from the torture.
Many of them didn’t have any hair.
It was surprising though, how after a few weeks they looked years younger and were wanting all the best makes of shampoo and even hair nets.
Their one burning ambition was to train as air crew in order to return to the fighting.
Some were just boys when they were taken prisoner from their school.
Probably because of their parents politics.
"

Able
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Able » 05 Mar 2010 21:44

.

Thank you very much for your views Domen, I find them very interesting.

I have been unable to find the size of the pre-war Polish Party.
Do you have any idea of its size please?

To offer you another take on nazi recruitment techniques.

One of my friends joined the Wehrmacht shortly after the Nazis invaded.
He told me that he joined to save his parents’ lives not his own.
From his account, the nazis put him, and a large number of other ethnic Poles in a cellar, which they then flooded.
By the time they were very close to drowning, and nobody had “volunteered”, the nazis told them that they would also drown their parents if they did not volunteer.
All then volunteered.

After we sank his sub, the French underground transported him across Europe to train the Free Poles in Persia.

Another friend, told me nazi recruiters in and around chatted Polish men and boys along the lines, you look Polish how about joining us, good food, good beer, good pay, women, etc.

From Wikipedia, I learnt that nazis set up huge screens showing films of the good life nazis lead on the food, drink, and luxury goods plundered from Occupied Europe to help recruitment through towns and cities in Polish Poland.
I do not know how successful they were.

Wikipedia also told me that the Polish Government offered Polish units to fight alongside the nazis on the Eastern Front.
Apparently, Evil Adolph turned it down.

Incidentally, you did not mention Katyn.
How do you feel Katyn would have effected recruitment of ethnic Poles by the nazis Doman?

.

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Askold
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Askold » 31 Mar 2010 05:17

Recruiting poster for Polish volunteers:

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Askold
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Re: polish volunteer books??

Post by Askold » 12 Oct 2010 21:30

While browsing through "Visti Kombatanta", I came across a photo of actual Polish volunteer in SS Galicia division. The caption says:

Haidelager. Boys from my village of Urman, Berezhany rajon. I stand in the middle. Kneeling form the left; Kinal Michael - a Pole who got along with Ukrainian boys, after battle of Brody he joined UPA and died in 1946 near Berezhany.
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Askold
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Re: polish volunteer books??

Post by Askold » 10 Feb 2011 19:48

Polish Flakhelpers

While reading memoirs of Ukrainian Flakhelper, I came across mentioning of Polish volunteers:
До школи з нами їздив також один поляк, який хоронився під українською покришкою. Він, почувши, куди ми вибираємося, просив, щоб і його прийняти до нашої «кумпанії». Ми, очевидно, не хотіли, бо він поляк, але врешті й його прийняли, але перед тим загрозили йому, що як він нас зрадить, то йому буде... Він хотів рвати свою виказку-«кенкарту», бо там була літера «П» і його зрадила б при наборі, але ми йому в цьому перешкодили, кажучи, що ще його не прийняли.
On our way to school there came a Pole who was pretending to be Ukrainian. Hearing that we were going to the same place, he asked as to join our "company". We of course did not want to, because he was Polish, but after threatening him that if he ever betrays us - he'll be in trouble, we accepted him. He wanted to rip his kennkarte because it had letter "P" in it, which would betray him during the recruitment process, but we did not let him, saying that he wasn't recruited yet.

During stay in Flakhelper training camp at Tropau (Czech republic)
По якомусь часі ми виявили, що між нами були й польські юнаки. Очевидно, ми обурилися й про це довідалася команда табору. Проте, ті польські хлопці дуже хотіли залишитися між нами. Німці врешті виділили їх на збірці, а від українців зажадали, щоб ми голосуванням вирішили їхню долю, чи мають вони з нами залишитися, чи будуть перенесені до інших частин. Ми таки погодилися затримати їх між собою на загальне задоволення.
After some time, we discovered that there were Polish youths among our ranks. Of course we got frustrated and the camp command found out about this. However these polish boys really wanted to stay with us. Germans finally separated them during the appeal, and asked Ukrainians to vote on their fate - weather they can stay with us, or be transferred to another unit. We then agreed to keep them with us, much to our mutual happiness.

Image
The same group of kids, 1946

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http://komb-a-ingwar.blogspot.com/2011/ ... html#links

Panzermahn
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Re: polish volunteer books??

Post by Panzermahn » 11 Feb 2011 11:32

The best source on Polish volunteers serving under the Wehrmacht and SS in English language so far remains Perry Biddiscombe's monumental work The SS Hunter Battalions (Tempus, 2006): The Hidden History of the Nazi Resistance Movement 1944-45, in chapter 2, subtopic, "The Only Country Without a Quisling", page 89-104;

Here is an interesting excerpt at page 97-98
Lev Kopelev provides a Polish perspective on these 'Streifkorps'. He tells the story of Tadeusz Ruzanski, an AK soldier who had fought in Warsaw and was taken into captivity near the end of the battle. Ruzanski and his fellow prisoners could never quite believe that the Germans were attempting to cultivate them for special operations, and they certainly could never reconciled themselves to carrying out such tasks. After a month of horrific treatment, Ruzanski and a number of his compatriots were shifted to a special camp, where they were happy to find plentiful rations, good medical care and clean barracks. Within several weeks, the prisoners were issued training weapons (rifles with the locks removed) and they were given Polish uniforms and German boots. They spent their time for guerilla warfare under Polish officers captured in 1939, and they were formed into military units. Ruzanski was part of the thirty-man platoon under the command of a Polish major.

In January 1945, the camp was visited by a German Oberst, who announced that the time had come for the Polish 'volunteers' to rejoin the battle, although they would now be fighting on the German side.

"Gentlemen, up to now, we have been enemies. But the German army knows how to respect the military valour of its enemies....

[We are] being forced to leave the territory of your Fatherland. We know that many of you have reason to be dissatisfied with us, and with what you have experienced during the occupation. But, gentlemen, you are all soldiers, and I don't have to explain to you that this is war, a war unprecedented in scale and intensity. After the victory of the German Empire, a reasonable and just order will be established over all Europe, an order worthy of the traditions of our all-European culture. Because no matter how much we may have fought each other, we are all Europeans. And now, Asiatic hordes are moving against your Fatherland...

Yesterday, we were enemies, but today, history has decided otherwise. By the will of history, in the interests of all the peoples of Europe, in the interests of your Fatherland, we have become allies. And because of that, we are giving you our best weapon and our best equipment and are presenting you with the oppurtunity to defend your long suffering Poland against the Soviet invasion with the same valour with which you had fought against us."


After this rousing address, Ruzanski's platoon climbed into two waiting trucks - a third truck was loaded with automatic weapons, bazookas, explosives, food supplies and medical equipment - and the party set forth under the direction of four FAK troops. However, when the platoon camped in a woods west of Bydgoszcz immediately behind the front, the Poles disarmed their German escort and gave themselves up to the advancing Soviets. Yet more light is thrown on this incident by the account of a Nazi civil official, who later confirmed that the German retreat from Bydgoszcz was protected by Polish guerrilla rear guards, although the relationship with these forces were tense, particularly when a German commander threatened to shoot the population if they would not evacuate in a timely fashion.

Panzermahn
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Re: polish volunteer books??

Post by Panzermahn » 11 Feb 2011 12:18

Two Poles (possibly Polish volksdeutsche) in the German Wehrmacht who were captured by the Americans and executed as spies

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Polish Volksdeutsche Werewolf member about to be executed by the Americans

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http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=171560

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