Polish soldiers in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS?

[George Lepre]

Able -

Once again I will ask you to drop the unfriendly tone. We don't need this thread to turn into a flame war.

Thank you.

George

[Able]

George, I'm sorry you find my opinion unfriendly, but I can't for the life of me see why.
As far as I'm concerned, my opinion is straight down the middle.

I found Hitler's nazis pretty unfriendly.
And I experienced a much less unfriendly WW2 than many Europeans.

How much first hand experience have you to draw on to form an answer to Piotr's question?

[Able]

George, please will you explain who you think I am unfriendly towards?

[Able]

From a British National Paper on sale today.
Not Poland, but it shows how and why most folks in Europe with knowledge and experience tend to be unfriendly towards nazis.

That Pole learnt at firsthand that nazis treated their "The Nazis set about treating Greece the same way they did their other conquests: as a fiefdom to be abused and exploited."
He knew at firsthand that "Hitler’s troops helped themselves to everything,"
Can there be any other reason for him volunteering to join the nazis other than that he wanted a bit of the snatch for himself?

The Mail, a family newspaper, paints an interesting picture.
Today's Telegraph, an educated persons paper, recounts how "Nazis loot Starving People of Greece", first published Wednesday, January 21 1942."

The ghost of naziism still stalks Europe.
Watch this space.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1k6hWvNmz

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Can there be any other reason for him volunteering

How do you know that he volunteered and not was conscripted or "volunteered"?

than that he wanted a bit of the snatch for himself?

Or he wanted his family alive and safe and sound?

=========================

BTW - coming back to discussion from page 5:

Wikipedia also told me that the Polish Government offered Polish units to fight alongside the nazis on the Eastern Front.

What "Polish" government? Hans Frank?

[Able]

Can there be any other reason for him volunteering

How do you know that he volunteered and not was conscripted or "volunteered"?
The title of the column and the title of the picture told me Domen.

than that he wanted a bit of the snatch for himself?

Or he wanted his family alive and safe and sound? Good point, and yet another reason for volunteering to join the nazis.

=========================

BTW - coming back to discussion from page 5:

Wikipedia also told me that the Polish Government offered Polish units to fight alongside the nazis on the Eastern Front.

What "Polish" government? Hans Frank?

I will come back to you on that one; certainly nothing like the Quisling Government, or the Vichy Government, but if you think about, Poland needed an official body to intercede in order to make life less of a hell for Poles and to organise Poles, otherwise the population would have been a headless chicken with reference to civil affairs.
Tell me about Hans Frank please?

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Tell me about Hans Frank please?

Wikipedia didn't tell you?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Frank#Wartime_career

Poland needed an official body

Who was its Prime Minister then?

The title of the column and the title of the picture told me

What column? Regarding that picture - as far as I can see, it is untitled.

[Able]

Tell me about Hans Frank please?

Wikipedia didn't tell you?: I read what Wiki had to say. and some other references. I am interested in what you can tell me about him Domen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Frank#Wartime_career

Poland needed an official body

Who was its Prime Minister then? I will come back to you.

The title of the column and the title of the picture told me

What column? The image on your screen is divided horizontally into rows, and vertically into columns, in other words, what's written above your post Regarding that picture - as far as I can see, it is untitled The picture is titled Polish Hiwi in German service; the word "hiwi" is an abbreviation from the German for volunteer. The full German word is Hilfswilliger.

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

The picture is titled Polish Hiwi in German service

This is not original title of this picture, but a statement posted by user Askold of this forum.

in other words, what's written above your post

That's the title of this thread. Not anything describing or related to that particular photo.

I am interested in what you can tell me about him Domen

I can tell you that he wasn't from Polish government but German "government" in occupied Poland.

Poland had no government at that time*. Germany occupied half of Poland, Soviet Union another half. Half of Polish territory occupied by Germany was incorporated directly into the III Reich (and became part of Germany), another part of that Polish territory was organized into Generalgouvernment, with Hans Frank as its Governor.

*Except for government in exile in London and government of underground / resistance. Both of which were resisting German occupation and did not propose (nor had any means to do so, even if they had wanted) to supply Nazi Germany with military units against the Soviet Union. So what you found on Wikipedia was apparently rubbish.

[Piotr Mikołajski]

I think the man in the picture was in nazi service because it was a good life if you had the stomach for it.

I'm asking about facts, not about your point of view. Why do you think that guy on this photo is Hiwi. Any docs? Details visible on photo? Anything else?

Many Polish soldiers fighting on Eastern Front used German uniform and equipment from the stocks captured in early 1945. There are many photos of Polish soldiers with German belts (even with "Gott mit uns" inscription still visible) or German winter uniforms. After WWII many militia members used German uniforms and weapons.

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Yeah I also have doubts if Hiwis wore such uniforms - including typically Polish rogatywka caps.

[Able]

Piotr Mikołajski wrote:
Able wrote:I think the man in the picture was in nazi service because it was a good life if you had the stomach for it.

I'm asking about facts, not about your point of view. Why do you think that guy on this photo is Hiwi. Any docs? Details visible on photo? Anything else? 1)
Many Polish soldiers fighting on Eastern Front 2) used German uniform and equipment from the stocks captured in early 1945. There are many photos of Polish soldiers with German belts (even with "Gott mit uns" inscription still visible) or German winter uniforms. After WWII many militia members used German uniforms and weapons.

1) I suggest that you post the picture again with your question revised to marry up with your requirements Piotr.

2) Who were they fighting for, and how many were there please Piotr?

[Marcus]

Able,

Please don't write within the quoted text, it only leads to confusion about who wrote what, thanks.

/Marcus

[Able]

The picture is titled Polish Hiwi in German service

This is not original title of this picture, but a statement posted by user Askold of this forum. That may be true, but it's irrelevant. I would also point out if I may, that if we had access to the original title the picture, Piotre would have the complete answer to his riddle, since the original title would be the title appended to it by the original owner of the picture. Any subsequent titles must be open to question. I accept however Piotr's admission that he didn't make his question suffificently clear. Perhaps he should have written 'Polish, so called, Hiwi' or the short hand version Polish "Hiwi". Although, has anyone determined that the man in the photograph is Polish rather than say a Barvarian wearing a mixture of uniforms?

in other words, what's written above your post

That's the title of this thread. Not anything describing or related to that particular photo. I doubt that, otherwise, why would Piotr post it?

I am interested in what you can tell me about him Domen

I can tell you that he wasn't from Polish government but German "government" in occupied Poland. "Occupied Poland" is a mute title. From another point of view, all of Poland was Occupied Territory. And from another point of view, Poland was part of Nazi Germany, Even your term 'German "Government"' is open to dispute. In many ways Deutsches Reich Government is more accurate.

Poland had no government at that time*. That's a point of view I can't accept without you taking Sikorsky's Government into account, the governing bodies of the various resistance organizations, and whoever presented the Polish in the point of view to the nazis. I am perhaps prepared to accept that I should have used a small rather than a large G when I wrote 'Government'. Germany occupied half of Poland, Soviet Union another half. Half of Polish territory occupied by Germany was incorporated directly into the III Reich (and became part of Germany If you wish to discuss at this level Domen, I think that you must learn to distinguish between Germany, and the Deutsches Reich), another part of that Polish territory I think you are getting muddled here, you have already told us about all parts of 1938 Poland was organized into Generalgouvernment, with Hans Frank as its Governor. I would also point out that you need to date your statements about the way Poland was carved up. At another time all of Poland was occupied, and from one point of view, was part of corporal Pennypincher's empire./color]

*Except for government in exile in London and government of underground / resistance. Both of which were resisting German occupation and did not propose Did not propose what please?(nor had any means to do so Please will you support that statement Domen, even if they had wanted) to supply Nazi Germany with military units against the Soviet Union. Do you mean to tell me that no Polish person had the sense to even attempt to negitiate with the nazis in an attempt to improve the lot of the Polish people? Not a single person protested to the nazis about their troops dragging Polish women off the streets, branding them Wehrmacht whores, and then serially raping them? Not one single Pole protested to the occupying power when the nazis carried teenage Poles off to baby farms to mix their DNA with German DNA. Nobody protested when the nazis kidnapped thousands of Polish infants to convert into good little nazis? Pull the other one Domen, it's got bells on. The Polish people were the only folks who gave the occupying forces real grief so I really can't accept accept the idea that they missed the opportunity to give the nazis a piece of their mind at every level. So what you found on Wikipedia was apparently rubbish. Harsh words Sir since you so recently referred me to Wiki. And since you told me little more than dear old Wiki told me.

[Able]

Able,

Please don't write within the quoted text, it only leads to confusion about who wrote what, thanks.

/Marcus

Sorry Marcus.
Incidentally, are you seeing the text in black and white please?
The colour should distinguish who said what very clearly.

Whilst, since there are points that need expanding within each quote,
the conversation becomes very disjointed when text is dissected to
respond to each point.

However, if I have time to spare for a next time I'll try a more technical solution.
Any chance of improving this text editor
to make clear discussion easier please?