Foreign Volunteers during the Battle of Berlin, 1945

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Armenische_Legionar
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Re: Armenians during The Battle of Berlin

Post by Armenische_Legionar » 20 Mar 2005 08:27

Allen Milcic wrote:
Armenische_Legionar wrote:
Hi Allen

From the fonds and Documents of spays, mostly under the "Top Sec."...


Eduard:

I mean which documents, prepared by whom, their identification numbers in the archives, their original source etc. Also, on what basis you have been permitted to review these documents and on whose authority. Thank you.

By the way, Panzermahn is not from Croatia (Hrvatska), he is from Malaysia.

Allen/


Hi Allen

at first:
Armenian NKGB archive sources - doc's - # 351,352,254, than
Doc's of Russian KGB leaders - (that is a copies- an originals in Moscow) - E.F. "Top. Sec." # 1989136187 and 23198689 - this is a sentral partisan staff secret docs.
Than
So called own works - Dro Kanayan, Garegin Nzdeh - which had been in contacts with Abwehr or other Germans.
Own work of Vardan Sarkisian - this is the most interesting one - about an Armenian Legion Staff and about Armenians in SS. - the number - 713, 714, pp. 5-61...

All this materials in Yerevan National Defence archive - some materials are close.

All the Best,
Eduard

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 21 Mar 2005 04:10

Panzermahn,

How about the Slovaks in the Battle of Berlin? Is it possible? After all, they were part of the Axis Forces.

Regards

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Post by Panzermahn » 21 Mar 2005 07:35

Benoit Douville wrote:Panzermahn,

How about the Slovaks in the Battle of Berlin? Is it possible? After all, they were part of the Axis Forces.

Regards


Hi Benoit,

Might be possible, but so far me and other posters couldn't find any literature on Slovakians volunteers during the battle of Berlin.. :cry:

Do you had more info on this?

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 21 Mar 2005 22:44

Panzermahn wrote:9) Croatians (Poglavnik Bodyguard and Domobranstvo flak unit of the NDH embassy)


Panzermahn:

It was a detachment of the Poglavnik Bodyguard, serving as the security detail of the embassy. You make it sound as if the entire Division fought in Berlin.

Allen/

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 22 Mar 2005 12:25

Allen Milcic wrote:
Panzermahn wrote:9) Croatians (Poglavnik Bodyguard and Domobranstvo flak unit of the NDH embassy)


Panzermahn:

It was a detachment of the Poglavnik Bodyguard, serving as the security detail of the embassy. You make it sound as if the entire Division fought in Berlin.

Allen/


Did i???? 8O 8O :roll: :roll: :oops: :oops:

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 22 Mar 2005 15:41

Panzermahn:

YES, you did - you said
9) Croatians (Poglavnik Bodyguard and Domobranstvo flak unit of the NDH embassy)
Your "master list" includes detailed information on units where available (ex. "50 Norwegians from the "Norge" Regiment" or "350 soldiers from the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division Charlemagne"), so if you state that the "Poglavnik Bodyguard" participated, it appears that you are saying that the entire Division fought in Berlin. It was a small security detachment from the division that was in Berlin, and if you want your "list" to have some credibility then adjust it when you make an error. And can the over-use of emoticons, it's juvenile and annoying. Are you trying to be a researcher of military history or are you in kindergarten?

Allen/

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 23 Mar 2005 05:27

Allen Milcic wrote:Panzermahn:

YES, you did - you said
9) Croatians (Poglavnik Bodyguard and Domobranstvo flak unit of the NDH embassy)
Your "master list" includes detailed information on units where available (ex. "50 Norwegians from the "Norge" Regiment" or "350 soldiers from the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division Charlemagne"), so if you state that the "Poglavnik Bodyguard" participated, it appears that you are saying that the entire Division fought in Berlin. It was a small security detachment from the division that was in Berlin, and if you want your "list" to have some credibility then adjust it when you make an error. And can the over-use of emoticons, it's juvenile and annoying. Are you trying to be a researcher of military history or are you in kindergarten?

Allen/


Hi Allen,

I think you're misunderstood me...I posted

Croatians (Poglavnik Bodyguard and Domobranstvo flak unit of the NDH embassy)


and i assume that you understand that the context of the statement i posted is Poglavnik Bodyguard of the NDH embassy

anyway, i edit it again if its to your dislike

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 23 Mar 2005 05:56

Hi Panzermahn:

As always, a lot can be said for clarity; there can be no misunderstandings if you add "detachment of the" in front Poglavnik Bodyguard. I apologize if it appears that I am nit-picking, but I feel this is important, and I am certain you would want correct data as well.

Regards,
Allen/

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Post by Panzermahn » 03 Apr 2005 12:46

My last post to you Allen,

Here is an interesting article and some sources for Tibetans volunteers during the Battle of Berlin (i couldn't post it in the original thread since you locked it)
TIBETAINS EN UNIFORME ALLEMAND

Pendant les années 40, des volontaires tibétains formèrent des compagnies rattachées aux régiments cosaques, qui combattaient le communisme aux côtés de l’Allemagne nationale-socialiste. Les Tibétains, avec leur endurance aux grands froids et leur refus de se rendre, furent parmi les combattants les plus acharnés contre les soviétiques. Ils étaient des cavaliers exceptionnels et menèrent quelques-unes des dernières charges de cavalerie de l’histoire. Ce sont les restes de ces compagnies que l’armée soviétique trouva dans les ruines de Berlin, ayant combattu jusqu’au dernier.

Après la guerre, le Tibet reçut ces combattants nationaux-socialistes qui purent rejoindre ce sanctuaire. Parmi ceux-ci se trouvait un Autrichien, Heinrich Harrer, qui devint un proche confident du nouveau Dalaï-lama, Tenzin Gyatso. Dans son autobiographie, Tenzin raconte que Harrer était un personnage délicieux et plein d’humour. Il parlait couramment le tibétain et était très aimé des Tibétains. Harrer s’était évadé avec un autre prisonnier d’une prison britannique en Inde pendant la guerre, et tous deux avaient vécu comme des nomades avant d’atteindre Lhassa. Harrer et Tenzin se rencontrèrent pour la première fois en 1948. Pendant une année et demi, avant que Harrer ne parte, ils se rencontrèrent environ une fois par semaine. « Par lui je pouvais apprendre des choses sur le monde extérieur et spécialement sur l’Europe et la récente guerre ».

NATIONALISTES « VÖLKISCH »

Même si Tenzin est présenté comme un pacifiste internationaliste par les médias et si le monde libéral condescendant lui jette une aumône comme le Prix Nobel de la Paix, pendant que son pays est asservi par les génocideurs chinois, Tenzin reste un opposant de ces forces matérialistes acharnées à mener l’humanité à une grisaille universelle. Il est, comme les nationaux-socialistes pour qui ses compatriotes combattirent autrefois, un partisan de la diversité ethnique et nationale.

Parlant à la Conférence des Religions du Monde à Chicago en 1993, il dit que les frontières séparant les différents peuples à travers le monde n’étaient pas mauvaises si elles préservaient et définissaient les identités génétiques et culturelles. Il exposa que ces différences devaient être conservées de façon à ce que l’individu ait son propre sens de l’identité. Tenzin est totalement opposé au mondialisme, disant des internationalistes : « Ils ne voient pas que la soi-disant ‘diversité culturelle’ qu’ils prétendent admirer disparaîtrait dans un système mondialiste. Non, la véritable ‘diversité culturelle’ valorise les réalisations matérielles et spirituelles d’un peuple spécifique, différent de tous les autres de la planète. Par conséquent cela ne peut pas exister sans les barrières qui séparent et identifient une culture par rapport à une autre ».

Parlant à la Conférence des Religions du Monde à Chicago en 1993, il dit que les frontières séparant les différents peuples à travers le monde n’étaient pas mauvaises si elles préservaient et définissaient les identités génétiques et culturelles. Il exposa que ces différences devaient être conservées de façon à ce que l’individu ait son propre sens de l’identité. Tenzin est totalement opposé au mondialisme, disant des internationalistes : « Ils ne voient pas que la soi-disant ‘diversité culturelle’ qu’ils prétendent admirer disparaîtrait dans un système mondialiste. Non, la véritable ‘diversité culturelle’ valorise les réalisations matérielles et spirituelles d’un peuple spécifique, différent de tous les autres de la planète. Par conséquent cela ne peut pas exister sans les barrières qui séparent et identifient une culture par rapport à une autre ».


Aujourd’hui, alors que les Tibétains sont exilés et exterminés, leur cause devrait être soutenue par tous les nationalistes « völkisch », de même qu’autrefois les Tibétains eux-mêmes donnèrent leurs vies au service du « dharma völkisch », depuis leur lointaine patrie, jusqu’aux steppes russes et aux ruines fumantes de Berlin.




SOURCES

- The Lost World of Agharti, A. MaClellan, Corgi, Britain, 1983.

- “The Fuhrer and the Bouddha”, par A.V. Schaerffenberg, dans The New Order, N° 119.

- Freedom in Exile: The Autobiography of the Dalai Lama, Harper & Collins, New York 1990.

Article paru dans « Nexus » N° 4, mai 1996.


TRANSLATION : TIBETANS UNDER GERMAN UNIFORM


During the 40s ,some tibetans volunteers formed companies which were attached to cossaks regiments and which fought against communism at the side of National-Socialist Germany .Because of their endurance against the cold and their denial to surrender they were among the most determined ones against the soviets .They were outstanding cavalrymen and they launched some of the last cavalry charges of History .It was the remains of these companies that the soviet army will find some of them in Berlin where they will fight till the last one .

After the war ,Tibet received the national-socialists fighters who were able to reach this sanctuary .Among them was an austrian ,Heinrich Harrer , who became a confident of the new Dalaï Lama , Tenzin Gyatso .In his autobiography ,Tenzin says that Harrer was a delicious man , full of humor .He spoke fluent tibetan and was well liked by the tibetans .Harrer had escaped ,along with another POW ,from a british jail of India during the war and both had lived as nomads before to reach Lhassa .Harrer and Tenzin met for first time in 1948 . During one year and a half ,before Harrer left ,they met once a week .”Thanks to him I was able to learn things about the exterior world and specifically about Europe and the recent war .”

NATIONALISTS « VÖLKISCH »

Even if Tenzin is presented as an internationalist pacifist by the medias and if the condescendant liberal world thrown to him ,like an alms ,the Nobel prize of the Peace while his country is enslaved by the chinese genociders ,Tenzin stay being an opponent of those materialist forces which are determined to lead the world to an universal greyness.He is ,like the National-Socialists for which his fellow nationals had fought for ,years ago ,a partisan of ethnic and national diversity .

Talking at the World Religions Conference ,in Chicago ,1993 , he said that the frontiers which separe the different peoples of the world are not that bad when they preserve the genetics and cultural identities .He exponed that these differences must be preserved in such a way so the individual personn may keep his sense of identity .

Tenzin is totally opponed to mondialism ,saying about the internationalist ones :”They don’t see that the supposed “cultural diversity” that they pretend to admire would disappear in a mondialist system .No, the real “cultural diversity” valorize the material and spiritual realisations of a specific people,different of the other ones of this planet .Consecuently ,this cannot exist without the borders which separe and identify a culture in relation to the other one “.

Today ,while the tibetans are exilied and extermined ,their cause should be held by all the “völkisch” nationalists , in the same fashion as before when it was the tibetans who gave their lifes at the service of a “völkisch dharma”,since their faraway country till the russian steppes and the smoking rubbles of Berlin .
This info is passed to me by a Belgian kameraden whom i asked him about Tibetan volunteers of the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS

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Post by Michael Kenny » 03 Apr 2005 15:38

Quote:

"During the 40s ,some tibetans volunteers formed companies which were attached to cossaks regiments and which fought against communism at the side of National-Socialist Germany .Because of their endurance against the cold and their denial to surrender they were among the most determined ones against the soviets .They were outstanding cavalrymen and they launched some of the last cavalry charges of History .It was the remains of these companies that the soviet army will find some of them in Berlin where they will fight till the last one."


Not a single fact in the above. Nothing that can be checked or verified.

As for:

"They were outstanding cavalrymen and they launched some of the last cavalry charges of History."


Where? That should be noted somewhere.

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maxxx
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Post by maxxx » 03 Apr 2005 17:04

Panzermahn,

What has Henrich Harrer to do with "Tibetian Volunteers?" total BS!

If you dont care to read Harrers autobiography you may just watch "seven years in tibet" as the Jack and Jill -version of his story.... :roll:

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 03 Apr 2005 23:07

Panzermahn wrote:My last post to you Allen,
Have a good life Panzermahn. I do remain unimpressed with the secondary sources you are providing for your phantom Tibetans.

Allen/

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Post by ninoo » 04 Apr 2005 03:22

I think they were Kalmuck soldiers because theirs religion is Buddha from Tibetan Lama sect. Kalmuck soldiers themselves serve in Cossacks formations.

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Post by Martin Månsson » 04 Apr 2005 07:53

Some refelections: Panzermahn, do some research regarding those Tibet soldiers you're claiming were in Berlin. Secondary sources are worth less than nothing. I consider this as a myth until I get solid verification through original documents or copies of them. I heard this rumohr some 15 years ago and declared it as a myth already then. I've read god knows how many books about the Battle of Berlin, been in contact with 50+ veterans who were in Berlin, NONE have ever heard of what you claim!
3) Swedes (3rd kompanie, auflakrung abteilung of the Nordland Division - Schwedenzug - led by Hano Gosta Pehrsson)
Who is Hano Gösta Pehrsson? His name is spelled: Hans-Gösta Pehrsson. Schwedenzug were the forth platoon of the company but by then there were not many Swedes left and one Schwedenzug barley existed.

Still amazed that none has mentioned those foreign volunteers that served in Kurt Eggers, there were Danes, Swedes, Norwegians to name a few.

Martin

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Post by CGetty » 06 Apr 2005 14:41

On the dubious subject of armed Tibetans, Christopher Hale's excellent book 'Himmler's Crusade', about SS explorations in Tibet in the 30s, mentions that the Nazis had tentative plans to arm Tibetans in the event of war and use them against the British. It's a while since I read it and I can't remember the details (perhaps to do with India?) but when the war did break out Tibet was effectively sealed off and the plan never went into action. I don't think they were intended to be part of any Waffen-SS grouping, just a 'native uprising' similar to the events in the Middle East. Certainly none of them came to Germany!

That's really all I can remember but anyone with access to a copy (mine lent to a friend) could double check.

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