Serbian SS Unit (& SDK)

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 16:00

No comment, specialy for this one
"It is the statement made by someone with a very narrow mind and frame of reference."

/Ivan

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 16:05

I personaly don't care anymore if people want to know the truth or not.
We have in this forum četniks described as 100% on axis side and SDK as Waffen-SS unit.
Everyone in my country, even communists, know that is not right.
None of members that described them as such have read their sources (četnik or SDK).
What more to add?
If you want to accept these ideas as facts, than do so.
Whatever i write seems like a waste of time and i don't want to do that anymore.

/Ivan

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 16:46

Dear Larry D.,
This has been posted before:
"...and the Serbian volunteers now found themselves under the authority of the Waffen-SS.

It is important to point out at this time that the S.F.K. 's relationship with the Waffen-SS was consumated officially, but never organically. The troops never wore the uniform of the Waffen-SS, and it is doubtful whether the relationship ever went beyond the simple exchange of a limited amount of paperwork. The S.F.K. 's situation was quite similar to that of the XV. Kosaken-Kavallerie-Korps, which was also taken into the Waffen-SS at about the same time..."


But thanks for posting it again!

Does this prove that SDK was Waffen-SS unit?
(I've already wrote this but nobody has answered)

"If you disagree with the footnoted sources, then PROVE they are wrong."
Prove me wrong.
I've posted my sources.

Leave it out...
- and thanks for compliments!

/Ivan

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Post by David Thompson » 20 Jun 2005 17:42

Ivanwss -- Let me repeat my earlier comment (at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 239#718239 ) -- seven denials was enough. Since then, you've posted 4 more. We don't encourage redundant posts here. If you're just going to keep posting denials, we've all read yours here -- lots of them. Since they're repetitive, information-free opinion posts, they're not adding anything of value to the thread. After 11 of these missives, you can't say you haven't been able to express yourself on the SVC here. It's time to move on.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 17:54

David Thompson wrote:Ivanwss -- Let me repeat my earlier comment (at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 239#718239 ) -- seven denials was enough. Since then, you've posted 4 more. We don't encourage redundant posts here. If you're just going to keep posting denials, we've all read yours here -- lots of them. Since they're repetitive, information-free opinion posts, they're not adding anything of value to the thread. After 11 of these missives, you can't say you haven't been able to express yourself on the SVC here. It's time to move on.
Accept my apologize - again.
But Larry's post is doubling as well.
My answer had to be another repeat of what i've already posted.
Sorry. ( :oops: )

/Ivan

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Post by Larry D. » 20 Jun 2005 18:10

Ivanwss wrote:
But Larry's post is doubling as well.
I don't think so, Ivan. This is an English language forum and web site. The previous passage in this thread that you are referring to was given in the Serbian (or Serbo-Croatian) language. For the benefit of everyone who visits here other than the native born, language-proficient citizens of the former nation of Yugoslavia, it was necessary to place into the thread in English the salient portion that seems to be keeping you up at night. It was also necessary to isolate and underscore the footnotes that you seem to refute. Therefore, I did not "double" or repeat a previous posting.

--Larry

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 18:23

OK, Larry, that is correct.
But, please answer me this honestly:
which part of the text proves that they were SS unit?
If Mušicki was accused of being unit's commander
for the whole time of it's existance and executed for that,
how can this unit be under Waffen-SS?
Why it was never mentioned on his trial?

(i know i'm repeating myself again, but nobody's still answering)

Let's say i agree with "Siegrunen" claims.
They were supplied by Waffen-SS and just Waffen-SS on paper.
I don't think it makes them SS unit.
What do i have to prove wrong?

/Ivan

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Post by Larry D. » 20 Jun 2005 18:41

I have the two-page OKH document GenStdH/Org.Abt. Nr.II/47133/44 g.Kdos., 27. November 1944, scanned as black and white photos on my computer desktop, but I have no clue how to post them into this thread for all to see. I have never done it before and I have no idea how to do it. I tried several times to copy the photos and paste them into the thread, but it wouldn't work.

Anyway, the most important paragraph is as follows:
2) Durchführungsbestimmungen:

a) Das Serbische Freiwilligen-Korps (einschl.Nachr.Kp. und Geb.Nachschub-Kol.Abt.) mit dazugehörigem deutschen Verbindungsstab für Korpsstab, 5 Rgter., 15 Btle., wird in seiner derzeitigen personellen und materiellen Zusammensetzung mit sofortiger Wirkung in jeder Beziehung dem Reichführer SS unterstellt und in die Waffen-SS versetzt.
Now, if that isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what is. I have nothing further to say on this subject.

--Larry

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 18:50

Larry, you're missing my point.
I've wrote that even if this claim is true, it does not prove
that they were actually SS unit!
Don't forget - "ON PAPER ONLY".
Nobody here even claimed anything else.
I can accept that. OK.
But it is strange how it was never mentioned before, isn't it?
(this is not continuing of discussion, just asking for oppinion).

Cheers,
Ivan
Last edited by Ivan Ž. on 20 Jun 2005 18:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 18:53

One more thing, Larry:
to post photo - when you make a reply,
before submit press add attachment
then wait a few seconds for browse, find your photo in your PC,
and then submit.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Post by Marc Rikmenspoel » 20 Jun 2005 19:12

I've been asked by some of the Mods to post here what I mentioned to them when this thread was discussed. I have copies of SS-FHA documents from March 1945 (provided to me through the kindness of SS-Panzerjäger Einheit researcher John Nelson) that set out the order of battle of the Waffen-SS as of March 1, 1945. The paperwork is signed off by SS-FHA head Hans Jütter, and has a stamped filing date on the first page of March 26, 1945.

The documents in section "III. Sonstige Verbände" list a variety of misc. units, such as Osttürkischer Waffen-Verband der SS, the Kaukasischer Waffen-Verband der SS, and the Indische Freiw. Legion der SS. Also in this section is : "Serb.Freiw.Korps".

So it is definite that the Serbian Volunteer Corps fell under the administration of the Waffen-SS. But I think it is correct to say that they were like the XV. Kossacken Korps in not having "SS" in their title, and probably not wearing SS uniforms.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 19:37

Thanks, Marc, again.

OK, to conclude: the paper exists.

But it is wrong to call SDK a Waffen-SS unit.
Same goes for cossacks.

Thanks for posting everyone.
(including Larry D, Serbian boy, etc :wink: )

/Ivan

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 20 Jun 2005 19:44

A greatly improved and expanded unit history has been added to the site: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=90

/Marcus

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Re

Post by Semenov » 20 Jun 2005 20:26

Hi to all!
I want to show figure SDK-mann from my book "Foreign volunteers of the W-SS''. The artist V. Boltyschew.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2005 20:33

Marcus Wendel wrote:A greatly improved and expanded unit history...
Greatly improved, quite agree :)

But allow me just a few comments for "Zbor" part:
"...pro-German "Zbor" organization."
(Mommsen, H. – “Serbische Nationale Freiwilligen-Verbände”...)
This is not correct.
You could perhaps call Ljotić pro-German (not necessary),
but not the entire movement.
This is correct:
"...Zbor" was a Serbian-nationalist revival movement,
completely independent in character, and having a religious basis..."

(Neubacher, Hermann - Sonderauftrag Südost 1940-1945...)

/Ivan

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