SS-Division "Handschar" photos

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Post by George Lepre » 15 Sep 2005 22:32

Hello Everyone -

Zlatni ljiljan - Regarding your photos:

First photo, from left to right: Sauberzweig, the Mufti's interpreter, the Mufti, Liecke (Ib), von Rautenfeld (IIa) (who is shaking hands with the Mufti), and Rachor (Ic).

Second photo: Albert Faßbender

Ivan: The men in your photo could be from Prinz Eugen or Handschar, although I believe they belong to the former. Handschar was only in Vojvodina and Bosnia for a few days while there was snow on the ground, ca. 10 - 20 March 1944. This is a very small "window" of time in which such a photo could have been taken. Also, I do not think that the relationship that eventually developed between the Cetniks and Handschar was this close at such an early stage. According to a German officer in SS-Geb. Pionier Btl. 13, the two sides eyed each other warily at first; cooperation did not come until a few weeks later.

Best regards,

George

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Michael Miller
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Post by Michael Miller » 15 Sep 2005 22:35

Yes, that IS Albert Faßbender - I recognize him from a photo in Mark Yerger's Waffen-SS Commanders, Augsberger - Kreutz (I think it appears in the bio of Karl Gesele)! Thanks for ID'ing him, George.

Best wishes,
~ Mike

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Zlatni ljiljan
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Post by Zlatni ljiljan » 16 Sep 2005 07:01

Mr. Lepre, thank you very much for your information.


But, I wouldn’t agree with you regarding SS & Damjanovic photo. You said that Handschar was only in Vojvodina and Bosnia for a few days, while there was snow on the ground, ca. 10 - 20 March 1944. But, according to some Partisans reports (published in Zbornik dokumenata…), it was snowing on Majevica Mountain not only in March, but also in April, during the Operation Osterei. If this photo really was taken in Majevica 1944, then these SS officers could only been from Handschar – I think that Prinz Eugen didn't ever operated here, in Posavina or Majevica region. Other explanation could only be that some SS delegation (from 5th SS Mountain Corps) had visited Captain Damjanovic before the Handschar came in Bosnia, in January 1944. I one of his reports to General Draza Mihailovic, from January 1944, Damjanovic claims that Germans offered him a governor position in Bosnia! Other Damjanovic’s reports from this time are incorrect too; in fact, he was constantly sending disinformation to his higher commands, boasting himself with imaginary victories. For example, after Operation Maibaum, Handschar troops were returned to their security zone in Posavina, but Partisans soon attacked their positions between Lopare and Priboj, where I/28. SS suffered heavy losses. After II/28. from town Srebrenik came in help, Partisans were forced on retreat. According to Damjanovic’s report, SS soldiers were beaten in Vlasenica area, and then they ran away in panic to Posavina, while Communists were chasing them. When Communists came on Majevica, he attacked and totally crushed them. He even doesn’t mention Handschar fights or battle near Lopare, he claims that only he and his soldiers hardly beat Partisans. In reality, Majevica Chetniks were only assisting to Handschar in anti-Partisans operations, like the other Axis forces in this area.

However, thanks again.

Best regards,

/Dino

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 16 Sep 2005 12:32

What about these two SS-Untersturmführers?
I saw this photo first in some magazine as a comertial for
D.Šakić's book "S Poglavnikom u Alpama".
Why would he use "Handschar" officers as a cover for his book?

Anyway, who are these men?

Image

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 01 Oct 2005 03:58

I've just noticed an interesting thing:
in this photo Himmler is wearing same overcoat he's wearing in one with Model.
From left:
- Himmler
- Fegelein
- unknown Heer officer (?)
- unknown SS officer (?)
- Sauberzweig

Image

(Compare)

Image

Same occasion...?

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Zlatni ljiljan
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Post by Zlatni ljiljan » 01 Oct 2005 07:16

Surrounding is the same, too (conifer forest, snow...). Both photos probably were taken in Neuhammer, during Himmler's second visit to Handschar, in January 1944 (I think that there was no snow on the ground when he was in his first visit).

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 01 Oct 2005 10:38

Have you noticed one very, very strange thing:
where is Model's famous monocle?
Photo is clear enough to see that he's not wearing it,
which is very strange...
Now, I'm not saying it isn't Model after all, but -
strange...

Image

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 04 Oct 2005 18:54

I've seen this photo a long time ago,
and just recently I've recognized that it must have been taken
during Himmler's visit to "Handschar" Division.

Image

Original caption: "Heinrich Himmler visits a Waffen-SS tank division on Eastern front" (?)
( http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... medy2.html )

If I'm not mistaken, next to Himmler (on the right) are Fegelein (behind) and Sauberzweig.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 26 Nov 2005 20:43

Tra-la-la...

This thread seems to be forgotten.

I'm mostly interested about id. of those 2 SS-Ustufs...

Cheers,
Ivan

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 02 Dec 2005 17:53

One more interesting photo:
(published in Kaltenegger's "Mountain Troops of the Waffen-SS")
Artur Phleps with "Handschar" officer.

Image

Photo wasn't taken during Phleps' visit in France in August-September 1943,
but earlier, between April and June 1943 (Phleps is still SS-Gruf.).

Who is this officer (most probably SS-Obersturmführer)?
Notice Croatian armshield on his right (!) arm.

Image

Thanks in advance,
Ivan

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Post by George Lepre » 03 Dec 2005 15:10

Ivanwss wrote:Who is this officer (most probably SS-Obersturmführer)?
Notice Croatian armshield on his right (!) arm.


Hi Ivan -

The heavy-set officer with the Croatian armshield on his right sleeve is Ostuf. Karl von Krempler. You are indeed correct that the photo was taken very early in the Handschar Division's existence.

Best regards,

George

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Post by George Lepre » 03 Dec 2005 15:14

Ivanwss wrote:I've just noticed an interesting thing:
in this photo Himmler is wearing same overcoat he's wearing in one with Model.
From left:
- Himmler
- Fegelein
- unknown Heer officer (?)
- unknown SS officer (?)
- Sauberzweig


Hello again Ivan -

The unknown SS officer in this photo is Hellmuth Raithel. It was his regiment that mounted a tactical exercise for Himmler's visit of 11-12 January 1944.

Best regards,

George

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Post by George Lepre » 03 Dec 2005 15:17

Ivanwss wrote:What about these two SS-Untersturmführers?
I saw this photo first in some magazine as a comertial for
D.Šakić's book "S Poglavnikom u Alpama".


The photo was lifted (without permission) from my book. The man on the left is Ostuf. Hugo Schmidt, a platoon leader in 2./SS-Geb.Pi.Btl. 13. The man on the right is his company commander, Ostuf. Hans Amtmann.

George

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 03 Dec 2005 15:29

Excellent, thanks, George!
Forum member Nino O. also suggested it could be von Krempler with Phleps,
but I wasn't sure, because I thought there was only one known photo of this man.
Photo was taken in first half of April 1943 most probably, because von Krempler
was promoted to SS-HStuf in sec. half of this month and on the photo
he has his first Waffen-SS rank, SS-OStuf.

Btw, I still don't get it why would Šakić use (your) SS "Handschar" photo for his book...?
(because when you read the title on the book cover,
you have a feeling that these two officers are poglavnik Ante Pavelić and Dinko Šakić :lol: )
Nevermind.

Two of my questions have left unanswered (/unconfirmed):
is it Rösener with g.m. Husseini (I know, I'm boring :wink: )
and is Model visiting "Handschar" on that photo after all.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 03 Dec 2005 19:03

Ivanwss wrote:Photo was taken in first half of April 1943 most probably...

Correction:
it is most probably taken during Phleps' meeting
with Gen.Glaise, von Krempler and Dengel in Zagreb, March 1943.
March seemed too early to me, because of sunny weather...
(and I'm not sure how early fezzes were put in use in Waffen-SS...?)

/Ivan

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