SS-Division "Handschar" photos

[Ivan Ž.]

I've always found this photo from Mollo's "Uniforms of the SS" vol. VI quite odd.

Mp52.jpg (75.18 KiB) Viewed 1063 times

Now I understand why: it shows an old unshaven guy with civilian fez on his head - the same guy we've recently mentioned. All these photos look more like a joke to me (they look like they were supposed to be entitled "how to become a Waffen-SS member in 5 minutes"). The old man in rags probably did enlist in the division, but the pompous SS men sure had their fun with him along the way.

Ivan

[balkanguy44]

Oh yes, it's the same guy! I've have always asked myself why the old man in the first picture wears a civilian fez.. now I have the answer.

It's a shame that they treated him disrespectful in some way.

Btw, the pictures of the old man and the group of men who is praying on the reibert.info website look very staged.

[Ivan Ž.]

It's a shame that they treated him disrespectful in some way.

Yes, I could never understand this. Why call people to join your army and then make fun of them? It makes your own army look ridiculous! But that's how mentally small people "grow" in their own minds. By demeaning the others.

They did this with Germanic volunteers too. I've already posted this photo on the forum, which shows the beautiful smiles of Dutch SS volunteers.

Nederland.jpg (146.97 KiB) Viewed 1011 times

(Photo source: "Große Geschichte des Dritten Reichs und des Zweiten Weltkriegs" vol. V)

Cheers,
Ivan

[balkanguy44]

They did this with Germanic volunteers too. I've already posted this photo on the forum, which shows the beautiful smiles of Dutch SS volunteers.

Yes, Ivan. On the other hand they wanted to show how they could turn the illiterate Bosnians into "true" soldiers. I think in George's book (correct me if I'm wrong) I've read that a German officer said something like "you can't make Prussians out of Bosnians".

But you wrote a fine post on your blog a few years ago: http://bandenkampf.blogspot.com/2015/08/bk0022.html

[Ivan Ž.]

I think in George's book (correct me if I'm wrong) I've read that a German officer said something like "you can't make Prussians out of Bosnians".

Here's the quote:

One German trainer [Cord-Henning Knospe] later said: In general, the Muslims - the Bosnians - were capable soldiers, but they were not Prussians. One had to tune in to their mentality, which was influenced by their religion and environment. Anyone who attempted to make the Bosnians into Prussians was in for trouble.

Kumm in his book on the Banat Swabian SS division mentions they had difficulties turning the Banat peasants into Prussians too:

Uscha. Stefan Helleis, Nebelwerfer-Kp. des Rgts. 13, schreibt: Die Division bestand zu 90% aus Nichtfreiwilligen und sie war am Anfang ein großer Sauhaufen. Ich habe oft gesagt: "Das ist der größte Sauhaufen aller Zeiten!" Und das hat mir niemand übelgenommen, weil ich ja ein Donauschwabe bin - ein Reichsdeutscher hätte sich etwas dezenter ausdrücken müssen. Aber aus Banater Bauern kann man nicht über Nacht preußische Paraderösser machen; doch aus einem Sauhaufen eine Elite-Division! Das hätte ich nicht für möglich gehalten.

Cheers,
Ivan

[balkanguy44]

Thanks for the full quote, Ivan!

I’ve never seen a member of the W-SS using the word “Sauhaufen” (= piece of shit/ it’s difficult to transelate it into English) to describe a Division. A very harsh way to describe it.

“Banat Swabian Division” - the 7th SS Prinz Eugen right?

[balkanguy44]

Hello, everyone

I’ve come across this SS-Oberscharführer of the Handschar several times, but I just can’t find any trace which could help me to identify him. Can anybody help?

[Huska]

Hello Balkanguy,don't know the guy,but I know that there was a fake information on Sh Wikipedia that it is Džanić but that's not correct

[Ivan Ž.]

I’ve never seen a member of the W-SS using the word “Sauhaufen” (= piece of shit/ it’s difficult to transelate it into English) to describe a Division. A very harsh way to describe it.

“Banat Swabian Division” - the 7th SS Prinz Eugen right?

No, no, no, it means mess/pigsty!!

Yes, the "Prinz Eugen" Division. (Ethnic Germans from Banat were called Danube Swabians / Banat Germans / Banat Swabians.)

I’ve come across this SS-Oberscharführer of the Handschar several times, but I just can’t find any trace which could help me to identify him. Can anybody help?

Source: Facebook/Google (can’t remember it)

As I wrote on page 26, the (published) source is "The Waffen-SS" Vol. 3, Williamson (page 11 and back cover). His identity is unknown.

Cheers,
Ivan

[balkanguy44]

No, no, no, it means mess/pigsty!!

Yes, I’ve rethought it, it’s correct. I would transelate it with “bunch of [useless] layabouts” too. The word “mess” is the simplest way to transelate however “piece of shit” can be used for it too, because some people in Austria use the word “Sauhaufen” to express something like “You are a piece o shit”.

[Ivan Ž.]

Yes, I’ve rethought it, it’s correct. I would transelate it with “bunch of [useless] layabouts” too. The word “mess” is the simplest way to transelate however “piece of shit” can be used for it too, because some people in Austria use the word “Sauhaufen” to express something like “You are a piece o shit”.

In the quoted context, it means mess/pigsty. Other possible uses of the word are irrelevant.

Regarding the unknown SS-Oberscharführer: the photo is actually signed. So, if anyone could read the signature...? (I can't.)

signature.jpg (32.2 KiB) Viewed 878 times

Cheers,
Ivan

[balkanguy44]

In the quoted context, it means mess/pigsty. Other possible uses of the word are irrelevant.

Ivan, maybe it helps other people to transelate other texts where the word “Sauhaufen” appears.
I think 10 different Austrians/Germans would transelate it in 10 different variations anyway.

[Ivan Ž.]

The topic was Helleis' text, not the urban dictionary Let's not drift away too far. Let's focuse on the photo/person you wanted to be identified. Can anyone read the signature?

Cheers,
Ivan

[Huska]

I dont know,maybe it's not even a signature

[Ivan Ž.]

It's a signature.

Cheers,
Ivan