Serbian Chetniks in cooperation with axis during WW2

[Ivan Ž.]

Gaius, i know that Kalabic had colaborated with Germans couple of times,
but he was also their enemy and his family was sent to Konc.camp as well.
Would Germans send some friend's family to K.camp? No...

[Ivan Ž.]

That dead person on photo is identified as Mihailovic.
That is not my identification.
And i said that i saw it first in SDK and not chetnik book,
and them, as chetnik enemies, had no reason to publish some forgeries about Mihailovic...

We can discuss about march negotiations, but, realy, not now, my eyes are closing...
(i have watched documentary with Velebit speaking about it etc)

[Allen Milcic]

To many Serbs it is a national insult.
...and i'm not refering to me, i'm not some great chetnik-lover,
but i just don't like lies...about Serbs, Croats, Muslims, Germans or anyone.

And what i wrote about Jews wasn't some great insult, but nevermind...
Can i post photos of Jewish communist criminals, or is that forbidden as well?

Ivan:

Let me clarify one more time - it is acceptable to post information on individuals, i.e. "individual Communist criminals" - I am sure that some of them were Jewish. What is NOT acceptable is posting generalizational, insulting commentary on any race, nation or religion. For example, "Commissar X, a Serbian Jew, was a criminal" is OK to post; "Jews are Communist criminals" is NOT OK.

Why referring to the collaboration of Cetniks is a national insult is beyond me.

Allen/

[Ivan Ž.]

...it is acceptable to post information on individuals, i.e. "Communist criminals" - I am sure that some of them were Jewish...
..."Jews are Communist criminals" is NOT OK...

Why referring to the collaboration of Cetniks is a national insult is beyond me.

I was thinking about some persons (with names),
but i haven't wrote "Jews are communist criminals". Never.
I actually have never even thought of that.

Insult is to say that chetniks were 100% on axis side. Think about it. Huge insult.

[G. Trifkovic]

Any comment on my comment of the picture you posted? Do you believe that is realy Mihailovic?

Gaius, i know that Kalabic had colaborated with Germans couple of times,
but he was also their enamy and his family was sent to Konc.camp as well.
Would Germans send some friend's family to camp? No...

Any more info on his family and their imprisonment in concentration-camp?

And when it comes to how Germans treated "friends": Djurisic,Draza's commander in Montenegro was also a German prisoner (sent to Poland,escaped,caught near Belgrade by Serbian State Guard,extradicted to Germans,released on Nedic's intervention) and when he came back to Montenegro on Mihailovic's orders, Germans awarded him with the Iron Cross (http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/read.php?id=2094)

I take it you are familiar with the saying "Ako laze koza,ne laze rog"...

[Ivan Ž.]

No, Gaius, not you...
Do you realy believe that Djurisic could get an Iron cross from Hitler?
That is silly forgery without any sence.

And yes, i have more informations about Kalabic's family in one book.
There's a couple of pages with them telling about their time in Banjica camp etc.

[G. Trifkovic]

"Ivanwss"]No, Gaius, not you...

This I don't get,but the smiley disperses my doubts Seriously,what did you mean?

Do you realy believe that Djurisic could get an Iron cross from Hitler?
That is silly forgery without any sence.

Offcourse Hitler did not personaly sign the award-but any german field commander could do it,in order to secure chetnik support,or their mere passivity. Let's not forget what a passionate fight did the Montenegro chetniks put up in May 1943,partly on Djurisic's orders ,when Germans moved in...

And yes, i have more informations about Kalabic's family in one book.
There's a couple of pages with them telling about their time in Banjica camp etc.

Could you please let us draw some water from your well?

Cheers,

[Allen Milcic]

For crying out loud, Ivane, those were only EXAMPLES, I didn't mean that you used those terms!

As far as the Forum Guidelines and common sense are concerned, claiming that the Cetnik organization collaborated with the Germans during WW2 is acceptable and is not to be deemed as a "national" insult.

Let's move on now.

Allen/

[Ivan Ž.]

For Gaius:
" " and "not you (of all people)" was for silly post.
Realy - Djurisic & Iron cross, come on... it is just too much.
Unfortunately i haven't brought that particular book with me.
It is very interesting and it definitely contains no propaganda.
It is called "Zabranjeni ocevi u ispovestima svoje dece".
There are stories of Kalabic's and other chetnik officer's families.
I'll get it some other day...

(damn i'm sleepy, you caught me off-guard now, you know )

[Ivan Ž.]

For crying out loud, Ivane, those were only EXAMPLES, I didn't mean that you used those terms!

OK, Allen, i wrote that just that there can't be any confusion...
Let's move on, i agree...

[G. Trifkovic]

Let's move on now.

Allen/

Quite so ,Allen . Do you have any info on possible collaboration of Djuic's chetniks with Germans/NDH after the Italian capitulation?

Cheers,

Gaius

P.S.Thank you very much for the compliments. I'll try to live up to them

[Ivan Ž.]

Quite so ,Allen . Do you have any info on possible collaboration of Djuic's chetniks with Germans/NDH after the Italian capitulation?

Hey, man, i do. Wait a few minutes, i'll post some.

[Ivan Ž.]

Dr Veljko Dj.Djuric, book "Vojvoda Djujic", about Djujic's cetniks colaboration with Germans (pages 49-50):
(in my free transl.)
"...Djujic accepted colaboration with Germans. He wrote about it to general Mihailovic:
...Our new little groups are colaborating with Germans in Dalmacija...
Vojvoda Djujic admited in one occasion that his troups are colaborating with Germans
in operations against partisans in Livno and Bosansko Grahovo.
He defended himself by next words:
Partisans are causing German killing of inocent people, so i let one our group of 100 cetniks from
Grahovo count to go to German divisional commander to guarantee that villages
from Grahovo to Livno are nationalist, and that communism was given them by force..."

He also explained why he did not have a meeting with Germans himself
- because he was a close friend with Italians
and they let him down by surrendering to partisans
(which used his friendship with Ital. to show him as a traitor).
He didn't want the same thing to happen with Germans which, by the way,
never gave any real sign of true colaboration with cetniks.
(source: same text)

[Ivan Ž.]

For George5
(photo of Djurisic with Pirzio Biroli):

What do you know about Biroli?
Here's some info:
Biroli fought along with Serbs against Germans in WWI.
He was decorated by Serbs with highest decoration ("white eagle"),
and he held rank of major of Serbian army.
At the time this photo was taken (Kolasin, 7.XI 1942),
he was offering all his help to Serbs, his WWI friends.
He was a pro-Serbian and anti-German general.
Hitler (for the same reason) asked Mussolini to replace him, which he did.

[Ivan Ž.]

Some interesting photos for George5:

1st: commander of King's mountin guards Nikola Kalabic with German officer in background.
(source: it can be found in almost all communist books about cetniks)
2nd: Nikola Kalabic is recieving a pistol as a gift from US colonel Albert Seitz (captain Bill Hudson, on the right)
(source: Album srpskih cetnika gen.D.M. u 1000 slika)