French Waffen ss on the West Front ?

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lato
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French Waffen ss on the West Front ?

Post by lato » 29 Oct 2005 13:42

hello with all.
I have just found in this book :
Image

this photograph:
Image

where it is mentioned that a soldier of the French waffen ss questions Canadian prisoners. Thus the scene would occur on the western front. However I believed that no French waffen ss had fought on the western front. Is a this error of the author?
Thank you for your answers

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Juanjo
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Post by Juanjo » 29 Oct 2005 14:07

Hi lato

The only SS french in west front were SS-Kriegsberichters Jean Henri Azema and Jean Lostau

Regards

Rob - wssob2
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Post by Rob - wssob2 » 29 Oct 2005 14:32

There were "French-Waffen-SS" on the western front - conscripts soldiers in the 2nd SS "Das Reich" division from Alsace and Lorraine. The conscripts from these cross-cultural regions (the frequent center of territorial disputes between France and Germany) were known as "malgré-nous" - the whole subject of German volunteers from Alsace-Lorraine became a very politically charged topic in the postwar years, especially round the time of the Oradour trials. Regarding the latter, many of the actual triggermen of the Oradour massacre were "malgré-nous" W-SS conscripts.

However, I'd like to point out that the SS thought of these regions, and these soldiers, as German. Postwar, SS-veterans, Eurofascits and SS war-porn enthusiasts began to stress the "European" aspect of the W-SS phenomenon all out of of its original proportion.

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lavella
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Post by lavella » 29 Oct 2005 16:05

Juanjo wrote:Hi lato

The only SS french in west front were SS-Kriegsberichters Jean Henri Azema and Jean Lostau

Regards


Hola Juanjo
JH Azema ,french collabo and member of PPF. He followed J Doriot in Germany sept 44 .Refugied in Switzerland and sentenced to death ,in absentia, he could join Argentina where he died in 2000
He was the father of Jean Pierre Azema ,the well known french historian (specialised in ww2 ,and rather from Left ! )
........seria màs facil escribir en espanol :)
Hasta pronto

lato
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Post by lato » 29 Oct 2005 17:07

Hello, here is what I've found about this question :

1)
In 1944, concerning the passage of the volunteers of the Face of the
East on the Face of the West, at the time of the unloading, it is very
difficult to know exactly what was decided, the more so as, in early
June, one found among deaths in German uniform of the men, young
people often, carrying the tricolour escutcheon of the LVF on the
sleeve. Some were originating in the area where they fought. It is
very possible that it acted persons on leave of the LVF which would
have, on a purely individual basis, taken again the weapons against
those which they regarded as invaders. At the beginning of July,
Doriot leaves fifteen days on the face Normandy. It kept its uniform
of officer of the LVF and is accompanied by Albert Beugras, who -
thinking of a possible capture - had to cover a German uniform,
without tricolour escutcheon. But it is as at that time as former
légionaries PPF, reformed for serious wounds, take again the combat
within various German units, the 21e Panzer inter alia.

according to LAMBERT Pierre Philippe et LE MAREC Gérard, Partis et mouvements de la collaboration. Paris 1940 1944, Jacques Grancher, 1993

2)
Image
according to a book about the 12 pz ss Hitlerjugend , heimdal edition page 157

Image

3)To answer to :
However, I'd like to point out that the SS thought of these regions, and these soldiers, as German. Postwar, SS-veterans, Eurofascits and SS war-porn enthusiasts began to stress the "European" aspect of the W-SS phenomenon all out of of its original proportion.

Can't we talk about this part of history without talking about politic ?

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Post by -Michael » 29 Oct 2005 17:10

What's so strange about the picture? Maybe this SS-mann works for the Ersatzkommando-Frankreich der Waffen-SS, or is recovering from his wounds from the eastfront, .... there can be so mutch explenations.

I see the vollunteer is wearing a shild on his left arm? Didn't the French vollunteers where there shilds on there right arm?

lato
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Post by lato » 29 Oct 2005 17:29

The strange fact is that i didn't know that french waffen ss fought on the west front, which unit exactly ? Or is it a propoaganda picture ?

Rob - wssob2
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Post by Rob - wssob2 » 30 Oct 2005 03:30

Can't we talk about this part of history without talking about politic ?


IMHO No. The history of the W-SS and the politics of the SS (and by extention, Naziism) are interwined so deeply one cannot speak of the former without considering the latter.

SS-mann works for the Ersatzkommando-Frankreich der Waffen-SS,


A recruitment officer wouldn't be at the front then. (not too many potential recruits at the front)


or is recovering from his wounds from the eastfront,


He wouldn't be at the front then. (Bad for a healthy recovery!)

BTW here's the translation of the Heimdal text:

A French SS-PK (war correspondent) interrogates prisoners of war from the Thrid Canadian Division (probably French-Canadians) to write one of the aritciles that will be published Summer 1944 in the Paris press (in particular, “I’m Everywhere”). It looks like Gerald de Baeker. Enlisting as a sergeant in the LVF in 1941, PK (propaganda company) with the III Battalion, he continued as a SS-PK in the Sturmbrigade in 1943. With three or four other W-SS French war correspondents, he was assigned to cover a W-SS division on the Normandy front - for him, the 12th SS.




Yes it is definitely a propaganda picture. (probably was published with the article in "I'm Everywhere")

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logibear64
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Post by logibear64 » 31 Oct 2005 02:42

I posted on the board recently interrogation reports of French members of the Waffen-SS that were assigned to Skorzeny's Jagdverbande. They were sent behind allied lines to conduct espionage and sabotage etc. Seeing that the war was lost they deserted to the Americans. One member had been in Charlemagne but washed out of Bad Tölz. Another had previously been a member of abwehr and was transfered to the SS.

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Daniel Laurent
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Post by Daniel Laurent » 04 Nov 2005 07:04

Hi Lato,
The photo is not very clear, I can't see the SS runes on his collar. Are you sure this photo is of a Waffen SS?

Because there were some LVF members in Normandy, not organised in a Kampfgruppe but dispersed in German units as translators and intelligence officers. Jacques Doriot visited them once, end June 44 or early July, before retreating to Germany. As the volunteer in the photo is performing an intelligence officer task, it would match.

Regards
Daniel

lato
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Post by lato » 04 Nov 2005 09:02

Hi Daniel,
The photo is not very clear, I can't see the SS runes on his collar. Are you sure this photo is of a Waffen SS?


According to me, we can see the ss runes on his collar, so we could think that it is a waffen ss

Image

I've already heard about those LVF members in Normandy, so ?
Who has the answer ? :)

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