Tatars as volunteers in the Wehrmacht

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Guñelfe
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Tatars as volunteers in the Wehrmacht

#1

Post by Guñelfe » 04 Dec 2005, 23:21

Does anybody has more information about Tartars attached at the Wehrmacht?

I have a couple of pictures of one Hauptman that originally was a SS sended to make the war in the Heer and he ended the war in charge of some of this volunteers.

One of the picts shown him in SS NCO uniform and the other one as Heer NCO. Finally a reproduction of a painting shows him as a Heer's Hauptmann and with his letter he wrote his campaign, decorations received and so on.

He used to said me that he belonged to the Infantry Regiment 30 and he did all the war starting in September 1st., 1939.

His name was Hauptmann Erich Bodenstein.

Later his picts.

Larry D.
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#2

Post by Larry D. » 05 Dec 2005, 01:16

You are probably talking about this unit:

Waffen-Gebirgsjäger-Brig. der SS (tatarische Nr. 1)

There were also several Tatar Schuma battalions and Tataren-Selbstschutz-Kpn. in Aluschta, Bachtschissarai, Bijuk-Usenbusch, Eupatoria, Karassubasar, Kasanly, Kokosi, Kousch, Ortalan, Savatka, Simferopol, Skelja, St. Krim, Sudak, Yalta.


Guñelfe
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#3

Post by Guñelfe » 06 Dec 2005, 21:12

Thanks Larry, but it seems that is different.

In front of me I have the reproduction of the pic that I will post in some more minutes. Here I can read:

Leutnant, Bodenstein Gerhard Erich (?)
III Infanterie - Regiment 30.
Kampfgruppen - Kommandeur
- Deutsche-Ost-Legion=Wolga-Tataren-Idilli(?)-Ural

"Feldzug"
1939-1945
Polen
Frankreich
Afrika
Russland

Sudeten Medaille
Eisernes Kreuz II
Infanterie Sturm Abzeichen Silber
Eisernes Kreuz I
Ost Medaille fur Winterschacht Russland
Verwunderen Abzaichen in Gold
Nahkampfspange in Gold
Lebenrettungs Medaille
Taperkeits Medaille der Ost Legion

So I think I must look for Ost-Legion Wolga

Thanks again

LMA-17
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#4

Post by LMA-17 » 07 Dec 2005, 02:45

There are two main Tartar groups, Crimean and Volga Tartars. While Volga Tartars have theirs own fighting legion (Idel Ural Legion), Crimean Tartars mainly served as German auxilliary (Larry already wrote them). The main different of theirs task is because Crimean Tartars served in theirs own homeland which occupied by the Germans, while Volga Tartars wasn't.

Larry D.
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#5

Post by Larry D. » 07 Dec 2005, 14:40

Guñelfe -

LMA-17 is correct. Nearly all of the Volga Tatar/Idel-Ural volunteers were all in the following battalions:

Wolgatatar Inf.Btle. 627, 825-34. Collectively, those battalions all belonged to the Wolga-Tatarische/Idel-Ural Legion but served independently. The Legion was officially formed 21 August 1942, although an earlier, informal version of it existed from January 1942, in Lager Jedlnia at Truppenübungsplatz Mitte near Radom in central Poland for members of the Tatar ethnic group and related sub-groups; the Tatars were initially assembled in the Sonderlager für Wolga-Tataren (Lager B/Stalag 366 Siedlce). On 2 October 1943 the Legion command at Lager Jedlnia was ordered to transfer to Nancy/France, and over the next month or two most of the battalions were also transferred from Poland to the West. In early August 1944 the Wolga-Tatarische Legion had to be disarmed as morale and dependability collapsed and they became increasingly mutinous and unruly.

There was also an Aufstellungsstab für Wolgatatarische Bau-Kompanien at Lager Kruszyna/Poland where Volga Tatar personnel were recruited to serve as unarmed volunteer auxiliaries (Hiwi) in construction companies, each of which had a couple of German NCOs as cadre.

Of all the ethnic so-called "Legions" formed by the Germans from mainly Soviet PoWs, this was probably the worst one. The last four of the battalions (831-34) appear to have only existed on paper. The Volga Tatars were so unmanageable that only one of the battalions (627) served outside of Poland before the wholesale transfer to the West in Oct-Nov 43. Several of the battalions were disbanded before they left Poland and the personnel relegated to Hiwi status and reassigned to construction and other labor units. The Wolga-Tatarische/Idel-Ural Legion was a king-size flop by any measure.

Unfortunately, I have very few specific details on most of the 11 Volga Tatar battalions listed above, mainly because they never did anything as I already mentioned. But that's unimportant because I don't think you know which battalion Bodenstein belong to.

--Larry

jopaerya
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#6

Post by jopaerya » 07 Dec 2005, 22:51

Hello All

Here some info about the Ost-Truppen in the 74 A.K.
in Bretagne (France) and especialy the Wolga-Tat. 627.

Regards Jos

Larry D.
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#7

Post by Larry D. » 08 Dec 2005, 01:39

Jos -

627 had a rather jaded history, too, and it wasn't always made up of Volga Tatars either:

Ost-Btl. 627
Formed second half of November 1942 by Heeresgruppe Mitte in Central Russia.
Lineage
Stab and 1.-4. Kp. Ost-Btl. 627 (Dec 42 - c.17 Dec 43)
Stab and 1.-4. Kp. Wolgatatar. Btl. 627 (c.17 Dec 43 - Aug 44?)
Stab and 1.-4. Kp. Ost-Btl. 627 (Aug 44? - May 45?)
History
Jan 43: Roslavl’ area.
6 Feb 43: Stab in Besedka/37 km SSW of Roslavl’ under Korück 559/AOK 4 in preparation for Operation “Klette II” against a large concentration of partisans in a heavily wooded area between Roslavl’ and Bryansk.
Mar 43: moved c.100 km north for operations against partisans located in the woods along the west side of the Smolensk – Roslavl’ road.
9 Mar 43: Stab and 1.-4. Kp. in Sukromlya/35 km S of Roslavl’ and assigned to line of communication security duties between Roslavl’ and Mglin under Korück 559/AOK 4.
26 May 43: unchanged from March; strength given as 5/29/15 Germans and 14/81/683 Ost- personnel; the battalion had a Panzer-Zug with 6 x Russian T-26 tanks.
21 Aug 43: transferred from the Roslavl’ area to Krichev/80 km WSW of Roslavl’.
20-23 Sep 43: now under Sicherungs-Rgt.Stab 631/Korück 559.
Oct 43: transferred to the St-Malo area in Brittany and assigned to 7. Armee.
1 Dec 43: in Plancoët/21 km SW of St-Malo attached to 346. Inf.Div.
12 Jan 44: strength: 7/41/30 Germans, 3/49/712 Volga Tatar and other Ostvölker personnel.
1 Jul 44: the Battalion mutinied (just the Volga Tatar personnel?), wounded the commander, and was ordered disbanded although this does not appear to have been carried out; it was subsequently rebuilt using its original designation, Ost-Btl. 627.
20 Sep 44: Battalion reported as being in a state of dissolution.
1945: lower Rhein area to the west of the Ruhr under 15. Armee.
FpN: 09306
Kommandeur:
Oblt. Raunecker (Dec 42 - Feb 43)
Rittmeister Sörensen (Mar 43 - ? ) 10/43

[Sources: Tessin – XI:338; Kannapin; NARA WashDC: RG 242 (T-311 roll 220/122); (T-312 roll 206/827; roll 1356/105); (T-501 roll 88/417, 452, 587; roll 90/036 and 054); J.Thorwald – The Illusion, pp.220-25; A.Muñoz – Osttruppen, p.32, 43].

--Larry
Last edited by Larry D. on 08 Dec 2005, 20:23, edited 1 time in total.

Guñelfe
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#8

Post by Guñelfe » 08 Dec 2005, 01:49

Thanks gentlemen,Larry and jopaerya.

Yes I think both are right. Bodenstein told me some stories about these people and how big impacted in his western point of view. I mean things and events that where normal for them where absolutly strange for any western person. And in France this troops act as they where in Asia.

Sorry for the pics that I promised but tomorrow I will paste it. 8)

Now the second thing. When you could see the pictures showing this Hauptmann in SS NCO aspirant uniform and later in Heere's uniform, which reason could have the command in mind to send this SS to the Heer? It was something normal to do that? It was something special and if that, do anybody have more information about this?

Thanks again.

Larry D.
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#9

Post by Larry D. » 08 Dec 2005, 01:56

Now the second thing. When you could see the pictures showing this Hauptmann in SS NCO aspirant uniform and later in Heere's uniform, which reason could have the command in mind to send this SS to the Heer? It was something normal to do that? It was something special and if that, do anybody have more information about this?
Hmmm....... That is strange. Usually it was the other way around: Heer personnel transferring as volunteers to the Waffen-SS. It could be that he had some special skill that the Heer was short of and the Waffen-SS didn't need, or perhaps he was crippled from wounds and the Waffen-SS didn't want him any longer......I don't know.

jopaerya
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#10

Post by jopaerya » 08 Dec 2005, 19:15

Hello Larry

Thanks for the extra info on the Wolga-Tat. 627 , as always
good and complete . Sorry for the double post .

Regards Jos

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jarek_g
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#11

Post by jarek_g » 09 Dec 2005, 14:02

Hi guys,

From my notices, mostly from NARA files, several complementary data about Ost. Bataillon 627
Formed in November 1942 in rear area HGr. „Mitte”. Composition:
1. Schützen Kompanie (Infantry Coy),
2. schwere Kompanie (Heavy Coy),
3. Reiter Schwadron (Cavalry Squadron).
From 07.05.1943 new 4. Kp from 5.(ost.)/ Landesschützen Btl. 826
From 07.12.1943 renamed: Wolga-Tatarische Inf. Btl. 627 (1. - 3. Schtz., 4. s. Kp.)

Bestreg.

Jarek

Larry D.
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#12

Post by Larry D. » 09 Dec 2005, 20:28

Thank you Jos for your kind compliment, and thanks Jarek for the additional information. This is what makes things enjoyable here on AHF - we post some information and then other add to it from their own notes. Everyone working together makes for a better product.

--Larry

Simon V.
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#13

Post by Simon V. » 11 Dec 2005, 13:08

Very nice thread about these Wolga-Tataren Bataillonen. I'm very interested myself in Wolga.Tat.Btl.827 who operated in Belgium. Does any of you have information on this unit as well?

Many thanks in advance,

Cheers
Simon

Larry D.
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#14

Post by Larry D. » 11 Dec 2005, 17:02

Wolgatatar. Infanterie-Btl. 827

Sorry, Simon, I have no details on it after it transferred to Belgium. Tessin says it was sent to Mons in July 1943, but I have it engaged against the Kolpak partisan group south of Lvov around Stryj in August, and then in Stanislau (Ivano-Frankovsk) in early September. It was shortly after that when it finally moved to Belgium.

If you have some information on it, I (and others) would sure appreciate seeing it. Do you have some information?

--Larry

Simon V.
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#15

Post by Simon V. » 11 Dec 2005, 17:26

Hello Larry,

Yes I do have some information, but don't have access to it right now. Probably tomorrow I'll be able to post some more information on the unit. However you're absolutely correct when you refer to the unit being in the vicinity of Mons. It appears in maps showing the "Sicherungs- und Landesschützen-Einheiten im Bereich OB West" for June and July 1944. Soldiers of the unit were made POW in the Belgian Ardennes by the Belgian Resistance in the first two weeks of September 1944.

Also have indications that the Russen Btl. 669 was committed in the Ardennes (was in the vic of 'Leuze' before). Maybe you have some information on this unit?

Hopefully more tomorrow!

Cheers
Simon

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