- Posts: 1832
- Joined: 23 Mar 2002 08:30
- Location: Ukraine
- Posts: 521
- Joined: 17 Nov 2009 18:04
- Location: from a mere
The thing I cannot catch is the difference between Galizians, Ukrainians and Ruthenians: are they not the same?
Do they speak different languages?
If Galizians were actually different from Ukrainians, why use the Lion and the Trident both? If Galizians fought for Galizien autonomy aside the germans, I think they were not too happy to use the Trident, am I wrong?
- Posts: 369
- Joined: 02 May 2002 17:40
- Location: England
Was this division Galician or Ukrainian?
I feel sorry for anyone who knows so little about Ukraine and its people. If anyone suggests that the division was 'Galician' it would be tantamount to me calling you by the name of province from which you originated. For instance, does a German consider himself a Branderburger, Saxonian, or Bavarian etc jiust because he originates from these disctricts, or does he call himself a 'German'.? All of those provinces combined into one state called 'Germany' and that gives them the right to call themsleves Germans. Galicia is a province of Ukraine therefore its people (those of Ukrainian origin) consider themselves Ukrainians.
- Posts: 2387
- Joined: 15 Apr 2002 20:29
- Location: MA, USA
I think we got to give Hecht a break; Ukrainian (or "Ruthenian" as it was known in the 19th Century) IS complicated. In addition, one of the division's official names was "14.Galizische SS-Freiwilligen-Division" so Hecht's question about "Galicia" isn't that silly. If there's anyone to blame, it's the SS-FHA for introducing the "Galicia" terminology in the first place.I feel sorry for anyone who knows so little about Ukraine and its people. If anyone suggests that the division was 'Galician' it would be tantamount to me calling you by the name of province from which you originated. For instance, does a German consider himself a Branderburger, Saxonian, or Bavarian etc jiust because he originates from these disctricts, or does he call himself a 'German'.? All of those provinces combined into one state called 'Germany' and that gives them the right to call themsleves Germans. Galicia is a province of Ukraine therefore its people (those of Ukrainian origin) consider themselves Ukrainians.
Galicia is the name for western province of Ukraine which borders the Carpathian mountain chain. It is the site of the former Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia, which existed for circa a century before being occupied by Poland in 1349. In the 14th century many German immigrants colonized the region and by the 1770's Galicia was the Kronland province of Empress Maria-Theresa's Austro-Hungarian Empire, with the provincial capital at Lemberg (present-day L'viv [L'vov]).
Due in part to Germanic, Polish and Austro-Hungarian influence & colonization, Galicia became the more "Eurocentric" part of the Ukraine, albeit a polyglot "borderland" filled with competing ethnic populations and interests. It was the birthplace of Jewish Hassidism (Chassidism), and pre-1914 L'viv was known as a thriving, multiculural Polish-Austrian-Jewish city. But Galicia also became the region known for its Ukrainian (also known as "Ruthenian") character and is often identified as the original "national Ukrainian state”. Historians such as Mykhailo Hrushevskyi (1866-1934) and Stefan Tomashivskyi (1875-1930) played a large part in this creation of a Galician/Ukrainian national identity.
Western Ukraine became an independent republic in 1919, but fighting quickly broke out between nationalist Ukrainian and Polish paramilitary forces. The Galicia region was subjugated and subdivided by Poland and the Soviet Union in the 1921 Treaty of Riga. The Polish administration introduced a systematic program to "Polonize" the region, which in turn prompted ethnic Ukrainian unrest, most notably manifested in the terrorist actions of the Ukrainian nationalist OUN organization in the 1930's.
With tacit agreement of the Nazis after their 1939 invasion of Poland, the Soviet Union took over the western Galician area formerly under Polish administration and introduced a brutal Communist oppression. Between 1939 and 1941, the Soviets are estimated to have deported between 800,000-1.6 million Western Ukrainian into the gulags - up to 20% of the total population.
In June 1941 German troops overran Galicia during Operation BARBAROSSA. Nazi Germany brushed aside the naive attempts to make an independent Ukraine, incorporated Galicia into the Generalgovernment area of former Poland, and introduced their own version of brutal oppression. Despite this oppression, many Galicians were willing to collaborate with the Nazi authorities as a potential means to eventually gain their own independence.
In an effort redolent of closing-the-barn-door-after-the-horse-has-fled, it wasn't till November 1944 (when the Soviets had recaptured the Ukraine) that the SS organized the "Ukrainian National Committee" and changed the division's name to "14. Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS (ukrainische Nr.1)" in a ham-fisted and transparent effort to appeal to the nationalist sentiments of the divisional members.
Apparently when the division's troops were interned by the British at Rimini, Italy in the summer of 1945, many were claiming to be "Polish" (hey, Galicia was a Polish province in the 20's and 30's, right?!) and thus not subject to repatriation back to the USSR as per the Yalta Agreement. The legal status of 14th SS members remained in limbo until circa 1947-48, when many were allowed to emigrate to the UK and other Commonwealth countries.
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 05 Jul 2010 03:05
Hello, I'm from Argentina and is the first time I go into this forum.
I wonder where they got this photo because the one in the photo is my grandfather.
I'm trying to get any information about my grandfather because I want to know their history in the war and does not remember much lately, especially dates and units in which served.
If you know anything or where I can find, I thank them very much.
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 05 Jul 2010 03:05
You know my grandfather? He lived in the village of Cupche (sorry if misspelled).
He has photos of that time in Rimini, I'll try to request them to upload to the forum.