British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

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thetravelingcs
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British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#1

Post by thetravelingcs » 26 May 2017, 12:04

Did any of the British units that evacuated Dunkirk in May-June 1940 return to Europe on D-Day, June 6, 1944?

The upcoming Dunkirk movie has got me thinking about this question. More than 300,000 British and French soldiers evacuated Dunkirk, but only around 150,000 American and British soldiers invaded on D-Day. I wonder how many of the latter were veterans of the Dunkirk operation.

Knouterer
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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#2

Post by Knouterer » 26 May 2017, 12:46

Few. You'd have to look up a list of the British (not Canadian ...) battalions taking part in D-Day and then see if any of those battalions are listed as evacuated from Dunkirk. Then you'd have to estimate how many officers and men in such a battalion might have been serving in it four years before. Probably not more than 10%. There may have been some Dunkirk survivors in other units as well of course but the grand total was likely a few hundred at most, quite possibly much less.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton


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Kingfish
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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#3

Post by Kingfish » 26 May 2017, 14:04

Both British assault divisions involved in Overlord were part of the BEF.

The British 3rd infantry was commanded by some obscure general named Bernard Montgomery.
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
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MarkN
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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#4

Post by MarkN » 26 May 2017, 14:20

thetravelingcs wrote:Did any of the British units that evacuated Dunkirk in May-June 1940 return to Europe on D-Day, June 6, 1944?

The upcoming Dunkirk movie has got me thinking about this question. More than 300,000 British and French soldiers evacuated Dunkirk, but only around 150,000 American and British soldiers invaded on D-Day. I wonder how many of the latter were veterans of the Dunkirk operation.
About 220,000 British troops of the BEF were evacuated from, or before, Dunkirk. A further 144,000 were evacuated AFTER Dunkirk. Although that latter total includes part of a Canadian brigade. British troops were still being sent to France AFTER the Dunkirk evacuation had been completed.

To tally which units were part of the BEF in 1940 and the Normandy landings would be a pretty simple and quick task now that we have the internet. Probably take you less than half an hour.

To try and ascertain even an approximate number of individual souls would be a mammoth, possibly impossibe undertaking.

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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#5

Post by Knouterer » 27 May 2017, 10:14

I see that I was a bit too hasty with my answer, the 3rd and 50th divisions, landing at Sword at Gold respectively, had indeed been with the BEF and evacuated through Dunkirk, and roughly half the infantry battalions and artillery regiments of 1940 were still in the OOB of those divisions in June 1944. So it may well have been more than "a few hundred". Of course, a lot had happened to those units in four years. Especially in the 50th Division which saw a lot of fighting. Wikipedia helpfully gives the OOB for the 3rd in May 1940 and May 1944 on a single page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Divis ... d_Kingdom)
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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#6

Post by Leros87 » 28 May 2017, 20:11

From the info I can gather the former units fought at Dunkirk and on D Day. Units in brackets relate to BEF formations):

SWORD. 3rd Div, 8th Bde (1 Suffolk, 2 East Yorks, 1 South Lancs (4 Div)), 9th Bde (2 Lincs, 1 KOSB, 2 RUR), 185th Bde (2 Warwick (48 Div)). 7, 33 & 76 Field and 20 A/T Regts RA, 2 Middx (MG) (II Corps). 17, 246, 253 Field & 15 Field Park Coys RE. 28th Armd Bde (13/18 Hussars (GHQ Troops)). 101 Beach Sub Area (5 Kings (42 Div), 1 OBLI (48 Div)).

GOLD. 50th Div, 69th Bde (5 East Yorks, 6 & 7 Green Howards (Bde part of 23 Div)), 151 Bde (6, 8 & 9 DLI). 56 Bde (2 Essex (50 Div), 2 Gloucs (48 Div)). 74 Field Regt RA. 233 (23 Div) & 506 (2 Div) Field and 235 Field Park Coys RE, 2 Cheshire (MG) (I Corps). 8 Armd Bde (4/7 DG (GHQ Troops)). 104 Beach Sub Area (2 Beds & Herts (4 Div)).

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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#7

Post by Leros87 » 28 May 2017, 20:20

RN ships also present at both Dunkirk and on DDay were:

Impulsive (destroyer), Locust (gunboat), Vivacious (destroyer).

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Sheldrake
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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#8

Post by Sheldrake » 28 May 2017, 21:36

53rd (Worcester Hussars) RA were at Dunkirk as 53rd Anti Tank Regiment and on D day as 53rd Air Landing Light Regiment

Orwell1984
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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#9

Post by Orwell1984 » 09 Jun 2017, 15:19

If you're looking for individuals, I did a quick google search with D-day Dunkirk veteran and found 8 men who were at both Dunkirk and D-day on the first page of search results. Digging further will probably turn up more. Not the most thorough method but it gives a small snapshot. Royal Engineers seem to be the branch most represented in the sample I found.

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Re: British units at both Dunkirk and D-Day?

#10

Post by Sheldrake » 09 Jun 2017, 18:28

Orwell1984 wrote:If you're looking for individuals, I did a quick google search with D-day Dunkirk veteran and found 8 men who were at both Dunkirk and D-day on the first page of search results. Digging further will probably turn up more. Not the most thorough method but it gives a small snapshot. Royal Engineers seem to be the branch most represented in the sample I found.
That should not be a surprise as the BEF -> Home Forces-> British Liberation Army Component of 21 Army Group.

You can start at the top with the CIGS Brooke who commanded II Corps and the 2nd BEF
Montgomery GOC 21 AG was GOC 3 div
Dempsey GOC 2nd Army was GOC 13 Brigade
Crocker GOC Ist corps commanded a brigade of 1st armoured div in the 2nd BEF
Ritchie GOC XII Corps had a staff job at Dunkirk

The only two Normandy corps commanders not at Dunkirk were O'Conner VIII Corps was duffing up Italians in 1940 and Bucknell who I can't track down in May 1940.

I suspect C 15% of the Normandy BLA had served in France in 1940.

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