Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

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Knouterer
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Re: Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

Post by Knouterer » 16 Jul 2017 13:59

For comparison with the sFH 18 carriage, here's a picture of a 10.5 cm K 18, a corps artillery weapon. Same carriage, but with solid rubber wheels for motor traction, meaning it could travel in one piece. The barrel is retracted for travelling; with its tractor (SdKfz 7 halftrack) this gun would take up about 18 m of space in a barge I think, clearly a lot less than a 15 cm howitzer in two loads with 12 horses.
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Knouterer
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Re: Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

Post by Knouterer » 16 Jul 2017 14:13

Just to be comprehensive, a couple of pictures showing the Rohrwagen (also called Rohrkarren) for transporting the 15 cm barrel.
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Knouterer
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Re: Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

Post by Knouterer » 16 Jul 2017 17:48

sitalkes wrote:Seems strange that the German, and French 75mm guns didn't have interchangeable ammunition, since they were basically the same gun. If the Germans managed to capture some of the British artillery positions, they might find some more ammunition there, as the British were also using American produced French 75mm guns
No, they were different. The Germans had fitted their remaining 77 mm FK 16 guns with new 75 mm barrels in the early 1930s. Ammunition was of the separate loading type, allowing changes of the propellant charge (except for AP rounds). The French 75 mm M1897 fired fixed rounds, with a case length of 350 mm.

The Belgians had received, as war reparations or captured guns, a number of FK 16 guns and lFH16 howitzers (same carriage) which were fitted with 75 mm barrels by the firm of Cockerill. Ammunition for these guns had a case length of 279 mm and was not interchangeable with either German or French 75 mm ammo. I believe the picture in Schenk's book shows one of these guns.

The Germans had also captured a number of old pre-WWI 75 mm Krupp guns (and copies) from various nations, which fired a 75 x 227 mm round, different yet again.
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sitalkes
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Re: Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

Post by sitalkes » 17 Jul 2017 00:40

interesting, what a mess!

Knouterer
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Re: Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

Post by Knouterer » 18 Aug 2018 08:41

sitalkes wrote:
10 Jul 2017 00:00

To remedy this problem amongst the invasion troops, each first echelon anti-tank company replaced its 37mm PaK 36 with a towed French or Czech 4.7cm anti-tank gun. The anti-tank forces of each first wave division were further reinforced by a company of PzJgr 1 (4.7cm self­ propelled anti-tank guns based on the Panzer I chassis). The effectiveness of these anti-tank guns and both the Panzer II 20mm and Panzer III 37mm guns were also improved by the introduction of the Panzergranate 40 (Pz.Gr. 40) shot.

I just read a history of the 12th German Inf. Div. in 1939-40 (Bewegungskrieg by Hermann Teske, 1955). In earlier versions of the Seelöwe plans this division would be part of the first wave (1. Treffen) and land near Weymouth, starting from Cherbourg. When the plans were scaled back at the end of August it was scheduled to land with the second wave (of 16th Army) embarking at Rotterdam.

As we see the division was reorganized in the way we know from Schenk: in the leading two regiments each battalion has one company on bicycles and an additional mortar platoon, there is an artillery battalion re-equipped with 105 mm Nebelwerfer and 75 mm mountain guns, a company with seven Panzerjäger 1, another with twelve 20 mm Flak (on halftracks), more engineers etc.

However, there was no Stug III battery available for this division. One platoon of the Panzerjäger companies (of the infantry regiments) was equipped with "4,7 cm (ö)" which if correct would mean Austrian Böhler M35/36, a less powerful AT weapon than the Czech 47 mm on the PzJgr 1 (see discussion on previous page). So there would be three different AT calibres in the division.
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Last edited by Knouterer on 19 Aug 2018 07:55, edited 1 time in total.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Knouterer
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Re: Seelöwe: Lets discuss:- German barges, sunk by fighters?

Post by Knouterer » 18 Aug 2018 12:22

On the 2nd of August, the division held a conference to explain the invasion plan to unit commanders. It was announced that the division would receive among other things 45-50 machine gun tripods, 200 submachine guns, a full complement of AT rifles, 12 small flamethrowers, armoured ammunition carriers, 100 large rubber boats and 30-40 Sturmboote.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

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