The 58th Anniversary of the launch of the Ardennes Offensive

[Brig]

If only....

[Caldric]

If only....

?? if only what?

[Brig]

the Germans had won that offensive

[Marcus]

the Germans had won that offensive

And that would have been a good thing in your opionion because ... ?

/Marcus

[Brig]

I'm Fascist. The Germans could have won the war, overthrew Hitler, ended the Holocaust by race and led an efficient miliatry to victory. Efficiency would reign. Look at photos and listen to video footage of the Wehrmacht marching. So in-tune, so effieicnt, so fantastic, isn't it?

[Caldric]

the Germans had won that offensive

And it would mean nothing, so they split the Allied troops, do you really think that changes anything? The Allies just regroup and start a new offensive against the Germans. even if their is for some reason (highly unlikely) that the Americans and Commonwealth troops do not relink Germany is still doomed from the East and West. The offensive was doomed and just another mistake by Corporal Hitler anyway.

[Brig]

but can you deny how great it sounds and looks to see and hear the marching of the Wehrmacht?

The Germans had a chance to win the war, if Hitler had relinquished command before invading Poland to his generals

[Caldric]

I'm Fascist. The Germans could have won the war, overthrew Hitler, ended the Holocaust by race and led an efficient miliatry to victory. Efficiency would reign. Look at photos and listen to video footage of the Wehrmacht marching. So in-tune, so effieicnt, so fantastic, isn't it?

No it is not fantastic to me on any level. So they had nice uniforms, so do the US Marines or British for that matter, they also are in tune. You are very naive if you think the Holocaust will end due to any reason short of force from the outside. The Germans controlling this monster had no reason to stop no popular front against it by civilians, the commanders of the Military that knew about it did nothing to stop it.

Fascism is more then a cool military.

[Caldric]

but can you deny how great it sounds and looks to see and hear the marching of the Wehrmacht?

Yes I can deny it very easy, I am not eat up with ideals of bravery and glory anymore. You will grow up someday and shake your head at such notions.

[Daniel L]

I'm Fascist. The Germans could have won the war, overthrew Hitler, ended the Holocaust by race and led an efficient miliatry to victory. Efficiency would reign. Look at photos and listen to video footage of the Wehrmacht marching. So in-tune, so effieicnt, so fantastic, isn't it?

Grow up! :roll:

[witness]

I'm Fascist. The Germans could have won the war, overthrew Hitler, ended the Holocaust by race and led an efficient miliatry to victory. Efficiency would reign. Look at photos and listen to video footage of the Wehrmacht marching. So in-tune, so effieicnt, so fantastic, isn't it?

So..so..so..
Marching was good no doubt about it as well as the uniforms.
However don't you think that there were quite major flaws in the Nazi ideology ?
Namely -ideological and national intolerance which led to the elimination of the political opponents and other 'undesirables' It would be good for you of course if you were born German and shared the Nazi ideology.
However have you considered such a possibility that you could have been born a Jew ?
I remember watching a movie where one guy was quite a frantic Nazi and a Jew-hunter.On one point of his life he found that he was not an
Aryan himself cause his father turned out to be Jewish.(Don't remember the name of the movie unfortunetly.)Guess what were his feelings ?
Perhaps you consider yourself a fascist and not a Nazi ?
In this case I would understand if you took some particular interest in
Franco' Spain or Mussolini' Italy.
Besides "footages of the Wehrmacht marchings" what else does inspire you so much in the Fascist ideology ?What is so appealing in it for you ?

[Brig]

yes, I am Fascist, not Nazi. And I am not for all Nazi ideals. I rather enjoy the concept of military-dominance and efficient crime-handling methods. Beat people based on the severity of their crime, and it will cease to happen quite so often (note that bread and milk were rarely, if ever, stolen from the steps of Nazi Germany). I enjoy the efficiency, the marching troops, the militaristic marches, the discipline, and the fact that it still allows free enterprise. Fascism changes to each person, as any other governmental form. My concept of the ideal Fascism differs from those of Franco, Mussolini, and Hitler.

You say grow up? F*** you, efficiency is the inspiration of so many self-enlisted men, no matter what country.

I do not deny the Holocaust. I know it happened, but I was merely pointing out a POSSIBILITY. If you are so narrow-minded that you cannot realize this, then you truly are foolish. And the military may have been attempting to stop it by bombing der Fuhrer. Given a choice, after a defeat you believe never happened and years of depression, would you rather strike out against your oppressors and expand the glorious fatherland or stop, what is both, a concentration and POW camp. After all, you need someone to send all those POWs who tormented you. Think about it.

[Caldric]

No one is narrowed of the mind here.

What we are pointing out is all the bad that you are leaving out.

Removal of civil liberties.
Reduction of the justice system to one of hand fed monkeys.
No freedom of speech, press, thought, or the right to vote.
Persecution of anyone deemed unfit, including euthanasia of the sick and mentally ill.
Free enterprise as long as it is approved by the local party bosses who demand kick back in order for you to be able to work or run a business.
Corrupted government, execution without appeal, trial without representation or being able to go to the court room to hear the trial.

The only thing that is free in Fascism is death.

[Brig]

that's your rendition. my rendition includes:

-Free enterprise, no money given to government except sales tax
-Civil Liberties? What are those? They don't truly exist in any society. Same with freedom of press, speech, etc.
-It ain't corrupt. It was designed that way. Executions without appeal? Dammed straight, but we do a better trial and PROVE you're guilty. This way, you eat up less resources and it costs the people less.

So now what's so bad?

[Caldric]

that's your rendition. my rendition includes:

-Free enterprise, no money given to government except sales tax
-Civil Liberties? What are those? They don't truly exist in any society. Same with freedom of press, speech, etc.
-It ain't corrupt. It was designed that way. Executions without appeal? Dammed straight, but we do a better trial and PROVE you're guilty. This way, you eat up less resources and it costs the people less.

So now what's so bad?

Not a thing wrong with it if you want live in such an insane society.

And that is not my rendition, but historians rendition and people who lived through it.