Tigers in the Bulge

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Larso
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Tigers in the Bulge

Post by Larso » 05 Dec 2019 02:31

Now I'm sure this has been discussed before but my searches haven't found much?

I've been putting together the German tank strengths for the Ardennes attack and there's a lot of contraditory material. The one I'm perplexed about at the moment is the involvement of Tiger tanks. Some sources state that 200 or more Tiger tanks were involved but my research only points to the 30 - 35 Royal Tigers of the 501st SS with Pieper's battlegroup.

Surely there were others? But I can't find a mention of any oter unit? Various memoirs talk about Tigers at Norville and other places. I imagine they could have been allocated in company groups to the panzer divisions - but again, nothing clear is coming up?

Can anyone point me to suitable threads or soucres?
Thanks
John

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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by OpanaPointer » 05 Dec 2019 05:28

Didn't they have issues with the bridges?
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Richard Anderson
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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by Richard Anderson » 05 Dec 2019 06:15

Larso wrote:
05 Dec 2019 02:31
Now I'm sure this has been discussed before but my searches haven't found much?

I've been putting together the German tank strengths for the Ardennes attack and there's a lot of contraditory material. The one I'm perplexed about at the moment is the involvement of Tiger tanks. Some sources state that 200 or more Tiger tanks were involved but my research only points to the 30 - 35 Royal Tigers of the 501st SS with Pieper's battlegroup.

Surely there were others? But I can't find a mention of any oter unit? Various memoirs talk about Tigers at Norville and other places. I imagine they could have been allocated in company groups to the panzer divisions - but again, nothing clear is coming up?

Can anyone point me to suitable threads or soucres?
Thanks
John
In addition to 501. SS there was also sPzAbtl 506. (Heer), which was committed at Bastogne on 21 December, and also 301. (FKL), which had some Tiger I. There were never "200 or more" though.
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Larso
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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by Larso » 05 Dec 2019 08:40

Thanks Richard, that's exactly what I needed. It pointed me to a great thread on Feldgrau where Ron Klages provided excellent detail. I've summarised it as follows -

47 Tiger 2s + 8 Tiger 1s (Hummel Co) : 506th Heavy Pz Bn

29 Tiger 1s : 301st Pz Bn (stayed in reserve)

So the total is more in the order of 130 but minus the 301st and those non-op/being repaired, there were less than 100 Tiger 1 or 2s actually in action.

Larso
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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by Larso » 05 Dec 2019 10:19

My next questions is about Pieper's Battle Group. Along from the 501st, it seems to have comprised all of the Pz IVs and Panthers assigned to the 1SS PZ Division.
Am I understanding correctly that the bulk of the 1st SS therefore went into the battle with only 10 - 20 Jagdpanzers?

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Kingfish
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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by Kingfish » 05 Dec 2019 10:42

For what it's worth I am currently playing John Tiller's 'Bulge '44' computer game, and it shows the mixed Tiger battalion of the 506th, a panzer company of the 301st attached to 9th PD and - depending on if you count this as a "Tiger" - a company of Jagdtigers of the 653rd assigned to PzAOK 5.

I should add that the particular scenario I am on begins with the German offensive at it's high tide -in other words 2nd Pz at Celles- so attrition has been factored in and not all units that were present are shown.
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Simon H
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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by Simon H » 06 Dec 2019 11:45

Larso wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:19
My next questions is about Pieper's Battle Group. Along from the 501st, it seems to have comprised all of the Pz IVs and Panthers assigned to the 1SS PZ Division.
Am I understanding correctly that the bulk of the 1st SS therefore went into the battle with only 10 - 20 Jagdpanzers?
Kampfgruppe Peiper did not have any Jagdpanzers assigned to it directly although SS-Panzer Jager Abteilung 12 were later indirectly involved.
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dgfred
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Re: Tigers in the Bulge

Post by dgfred » 25 Feb 2020 16:34

I thought the few 'bigger' tanks in Pieper's Group couldn't keep up originally and moved forward as best they could? Problems with congestion, roads, bridges, etc

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