Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

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Artee
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Artee » 06 Jul 2020 00:08

I'm thinking now that JK probably got it right (in post #2). The previous 'tenants' of the position were quite probably gemischte Flak-Abteilung 683 (v). However, what with the Luftwaffe slowly being decimated in early 44, Carpiquet wasn't being used as much - hence Flak being redeployed. The 683 would have certainly been more useful around the Paris area trying to dissuade the USAAF/RAF from attacking more active airfields, taking out bridges on the Seine, hitting marshalling yards et al.

And it probably explains why there was no unit indicated on the June 44 map. It looks like these previous 'tenants' just trashed the place and walked away. Typical. :wink:

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 06 Jul 2020 16:42

Artee et al:

Please see here for information on Caen-Carpiquet:

http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20France.pdf

It notes that there were no Luftwaffe flying units based here after early fall 1943. With their departure, all of the schwere Flak-Batterien with also pulled out leaving just leichte Flak-Batterien. From 1941 to early fall 1943, Caen-Carpiquet was used mainly as an Absprunghafen (advanced landing ground for topping off the fuel tanks and staging a raid) for Luftwaffe unit based further inland.

This could possibly explain why the heavy batteries of gem.683 (v) were moved out and not replaced.

L.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Jul 2020 16:54

Once the invasion started then Flak were moved to Normandy. Even if this complex had been fully manned and working it would have had to be abandoned because it was simply too close to the front-line. On June 7th Canadian tanks were all over that area.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 13 Jul 2020 23:50

A bit more detail
US7 17.jpg
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Juha
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Juha » 22 Jul 2020 19:53

The photo in the message #6 clearly shows an abandoned position of a Grossbatterie, the positions of 6 88mm around around the Kommandogerät

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 19 Apr 2021 10:27

It's seems to be Stp Cussy. This strong point has been evacuated at the beginning of 1944, and the weapons withdraw. But on the other side, you still have the Wn 130 south of Franqueville with I./2.Battr/Flak.Abt.835 on June 1944.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 20 Apr 2021 01:28

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
19 Apr 2021 10:27
It's seems to be Stp Cussy. This strong point has been evacuated at the beginning of 1944, and the weapons withdraw. But on the other side, you still have the Wn 130 south of Franqueville with I./2.Battr/Flak.Abt.835 on June 1944.
There is pretty good coverage of that area in 1945. Where was the Franqueville AA site?

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/telechar ... ns.4967865

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 20 Apr 2021 06:22

300 meters south West exit of this hamlet. If you read history of HJ Division write down by Hubert Meyer, there are few words made by members of 15.Aufkl./Pz.Gr.Rgt.25 of this position. You find it to on aerial reco made by planes on may 1944.
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 20 Apr 2021 15:34

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
20 Apr 2021 06:22
300 meters south West exit of this hamlet. If you read history of HJ Division write down by Hubert Meyer, there are few words made by members of 15.Aufkl./Pz.Gr.Rgt.25 of this position. You find it to on aerial reco made by planes on may 1944.
Regards
frame 1031 May 28, US31-0501
1031 May 28 US31-0501 Carpiquet, Franqueville .jpg
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 20 Apr 2021 15:55

June 7th
P-0046 June 7 k.jpg
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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 20 Apr 2021 16:33

That's the place. The Flak members withdrawed between 6 and 7 o'clock in the morning on June the 6th, moving into Caen. Those stragglers were once reunited during the afternoon by the commander of Flak.Abt.996 and committed within the border of Caen (Herouville??), before to be withdraw for good on June the 7th.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 20 Apr 2021 19:50

Here's le.996 in the event anyone is interested in additional coverage of the unit:


le.Flak-Abt. 996 (v)
Formed June 1942 in Luftgau XII/XIII (possibly in or near Nürnberg) with a Stab (new), 1. Battr. (ex-5./Res.Flak-Abt. 142), 2. Battr. (ex-5./Res.Flak-Abt. 291), 3. Battr. (ex-4./Res.Flak-Abt. 446), 4. Battr. (ex-5./Res.Flak-Abt. 446).

Subordinated to:
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 30 (at least Oct 43 – Jun 44)
Stab/Flak-Sturm-Rgt. 4 (Jul 44)
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 59 (Jul 44 – at least Oct 44)

History:
10 May 44: at Oissel and Caen-Carpiquet. (T-321 roll 65; ULTRA)
6 Jun 44: all or elements in Caen - reported the Caen electrical works totally destroyed by Allied bombs. (ULTRA KV6714)
7 Jun 44: Abt. reported the loss of 1 x 3.7 cm and 2 x 2.0 cm guns plus 1 man MIA and 7 WIA in Caen. (CX/MSS/R209/68)
12 Jun 44: Caen. (ULTRA KV7799)
22-23 Jun 44: 4./996 at Saint-Lô. (CX/MSS/R224/109)
24 Jun 44: Stab in Clinchamps/12 km S of Caen. (ULTRA KV9519)
1 Jul 44: 1. Battr./996 in Roven and 3.Battr./996 at Le Manoir. (CX/MSS/R. 233 (C) 3.7.44)
6 Jul 44: 2. and 4./996 protecting the Orne bridge(s) at Thury Harcourt. (CX/MSS/T238/61; BNA HW 5/524)
15 Jul 44: Normandy under Flak-Sturm-Rgt. 4. (T-971 roll 18/frame 054)
21 Aug 44: Abt. In trf to the Bernay area with 3./996 trf to Le Manoir for operations under Flak-Rgt. 100. (CX/MSS/T283/126) (BNA HW 5/570/0298)
27 Aug 44: Flak-Abt. 996 at St.-Pol. (BNA HW 5/574)
Aug-Dec 44: assigned to Flak-Rgt. 59, withdrew across France to the Trier area in the Eifel and last identified there in October 1944. Ordered disbanded around the end of the year with its Feldpost numbers being deleted on 24 Jan and 27 Feb 45. (Holm/ww2.dk; Kannapin)
FpNs: Stab (L 41977); 1. Battr. (L 50210); 2. Battr. (L 35113); 3. Battr. (L 50785); 4. Battr. (L 14867).
Kommandeur:
Hptm. Walter Kross (? - Sep 42)
Maj. Heinrich Schnöckel (Sep 42 - ?) 1/43, 4/43, 7/44

L.

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 28 Apr 2021 18:43

Hi Larry,
Thanks for the informations. Any aerial claims by Flak. Abt on June the 6th and 7th?
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 28 Apr 2021 19:15

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
28 Apr 2021 18:43
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the informations. Any aerial claims by Flak. Abt on June the 6th and 7th?
Regards
Yes, lots of them. They are hand-written entries in chronological order on log pages that were microfilmed and retained by Abteilung V of the Luftwaffenpersonalamt.

Chef für Ausz. und Dizsiplin
Luftwaffen-Personalamt L.P. [A] V Films

1. The BA-MA films cover Claims of crews of Day-Fighters, Night-Fighters, miscellaneous units, and Flak Batteries on all Fronts from September 1939 to the end of December 1944. The Films roughly form three parts: 1. Handwritten Daily Logs [severely limited and often duplicated until about the beginning of 1943]. 2. Typed List of the 'Ubersicht über bisher anerkannte Abschuße' or, roughly, 'List of confirmed kills known hitherto'. These omit the important crash-locations, and usually cover claims to about mid-1942 only. And, 3., hand-written Daily Logs of Claims which cover, solely, the unit, the date and time, and the RLM Confirmation Number.

L.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 28 Apr 2021 19:24

So, it should be on part 3, that's right ?

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