The defeat of the German air force (USSBS)

[Politician01]

I would be looking for the USSBS European War report 59 - The defeat of the German air force - in order to asses to what conclusion the Americans came in regars to the defeat of the LW. Unfortunately the report is nowhere to be found. On Amazon many reports can be bought - except report 59 and it is absent from all onine libraries.

There is a collection of 31 of the most important reports of the USSBS bublished by David MacIsaac - however there are 10 volumes and withoit an index it it impossible to tell if the record has been included.

Does anyone know how to aquire this report/an index for MacIsaac´s collection?

Regards

[Richard Anderson]

I would be looking for the USSBS European War report 59 - The defeat of the German air force - in order to asses to what conclusion the Americans came in regars to the defeat of the LW. Unfortunately the report is nowhere to be found. On Amazon many reports can be bought - except report 59 and it is absent from all onine libraries.

There is a collection of 31 of the most important reports of the USSBS bublished by David MacIsaac - however there are 10 volumes and withoit an index it it impossible to tell if the record has been included.

Does anyone know how to aquire this report/an index for MacIsaac´s collection?

Regards

Well, that was easy. You may have been overthinking your search terms.

http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Defea ... Force.html

[Politician01]

I would be looking for the USSBS European War report 59 - The defeat of the German air force - in order to asses to what conclusion the Americans came in regars to the defeat of the LW. Unfortunately the report is nowhere to be found. On Amazon many reports can be bought - except report 59 and it is absent from all onine libraries.

There is a collection of 31 of the most important reports of the USSBS bublished by David MacIsaac - however there are 10 volumes and withoit an index it it impossible to tell if the record has been included.

Does anyone know how to aquire this report/an index for MacIsaac´s collection?

Regards

Well, that was easy. You may have been overthinking your search terms.

http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Defea ... Force.html

I found this site - and this is not the full report - Report 59 has 44 pages and includes the following content:

The Defeat of the German Air Force (final report) :

a. Reference material to final report.
b. German Air Force-order of battle and losses.
c. Relative performance of British and American fighters against German fighters.
d. German Air Force planning and requirements in relation to production.
e. Report on armament in the air war, 1939-45.
f. The German flak effort throughout the war.
g. German Air Force supply and maintenance.
h. German Air Force supply and maintenance exhibits. i. German Air Ministry studies.
j. German aircraft programs (Leiferplan).
k. German Air Force planning and requirements in re­lation to production.
l. Communications equipment, electronic equipment. optics and instruments.
m. Description of USAAF air intelligence in the Euro­pean Theater of Operations.

[Richard Anderson]

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[Richard Anderson]

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[Richard Anderson]

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[Richard Anderson]

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[Politician01]

Where did you find the apparent "Table of Contents" you are referencing?

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/NHC/New ... ecords.pdf

I have the motor vehicle/tank industry report and they correspond rather nicely to this index. The report on the website is perhaps 20 pages long (instead of the supposed 44) and does seem to be more of a summary/ picked out parts then the full report (according to the index)

[Richard Anderson]

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/NHC/New ... ecords.pdf

I have the motor vehicle/tank industry report and they correspond rather nicely to this index.

That's nice, but why do you suppose the Military Analysis Division reports would follow exactly the format of the Munitions Division Reports? And what part of my explanation of what those references are did you misunderstand? The USSBS Index references the source documents used for the various reports and is not a table of contents for the reports. It happens that the source document list in the Index and the organization of the Motor Vehicle and Tank Industry Summary reports "correspond rather nicely", but Report No. 59 and the other reports by the Military Analysis Division do not. So sue them.

The report on the website is perhaps 20 pages long (instead of the supposed 44) and does seem to be more of a summary/ picked out parts then the full report (according to the index)

What part of "BTW, both the original First Edition, October 1945 and the Second Edition, November 1947 versions of the report are 44 pages in length." is unclear to you? Or do I need to be clearer for you?

The unpaginated version of the report found at http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Defea ... Force.html is an exact copy (well, there are some minor spelling errors not found in the original) of the Second Edition of Report No. 59.

Is that clear enough for you now?

[Politician01]

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/NHC/New ... ecords.pdf

I have the motor vehicle/tank industry report and they correspond rather nicely to this index.

That's nice, but why do you suppose the Military Analysis Division reports would follow exactly the format of the Munitions Division Reports? And what part of my explanation of what those references are did you misunderstand? The USSBS Index references the source documents used for the various reports and is not a table of contents for the reports. It happens that the source document list in the Index and the organization of the Motor Vehicle and Tank Industry Summary reports "correspond rather nicely", but Report No. 59 and the other reports by the Military Analysis Division do not. So sue them.

The report on the website is perhaps 20 pages long (instead of the supposed 44) and does seem to be more of a summary/ picked out parts then the full report (according to the index)

What part of "BTW, both the original First Edition, October 1945 and the Second Edition, November 1947 versions of the report are 44 pages in length." is unclear to you? Or do I need to be clearer for you?

The unpaginated version of the report found at http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Defea ... Force.html is an exact copy (well, there are some minor spelling errors not found in the original) of the Second Edition of Report No. 59.

Is that clear enough for you now?

1. Calm down a Bit
2. The individual sections I have posted are referenced in other works like: "USSBS German air force order of battle and losses p 7."

Thats why I assumed they were subsections of report 59 included in Report 59. If what you say is true and the report on that website is an almost exact copy of the published USSBS report it would mean that these are unpublished reports not available to the general public which would be a pity.

[Richard Anderson]

1. Calm down a Bit

I am calm. I also spent the better part of an hour paging through A1128, extracting, and posting data that fully answered your question, only to have you ignore it - it is pretty evident that you still have not read or understood what I posted - and now question my veracity. I'm done with you.

2. The individual sections I have posted are referenced in other works like: "USSBS German air force order of battle and losses p 7."

That others have incorrectly sourced things they have said is not my problem.

Thats why I assumed they were subsections of report 59 included in Report 59. If what you say is true and the report on that website is an almost exact copy of the published USSBS report it would mean that these are unpublished reports not available to the general public which would be a pity.

"If what I say is true"? Seriously? "...it would mean that these are unpublished reports". Ya think that might be the case after I just finished explaining to you that was exactly what they are. Guess what, do your own damned research in future. Have fun at Maxwell.

[Politician01]

1. Calm down a Bit

I am calm. I also spent the better part of an hour paging through A1128, extracting, and posting data that fully answered your question, only to have you ignore it - it is pretty evident that you still have not read or understood what I posted - and now question my veracity. I'm done with you.

2. The individual sections I have posted are referenced in other works like: "USSBS German air force order of battle and losses p 7."

That others have incorrectly sourced things they have said is not my problem.

Thats why I assumed they were subsections of report 59 included in Report 59. If what you say is true and the report on that website is an almost exact copy of the published USSBS report it would mean that these are unpublished reports not available to the general public which would be a pity.

"If what I say is true"? Seriously? "...it would mean that these are unpublished reports". Ya think that might be the case after I just finished explaining to you that was exactly what they are. Guess what, do your own damned research in future. Have fun at Maxwell.

Next time before wasting my - or anyone elses time - just dont answer.

[Richard Anderson]

Yes, because information ignored is such a treasure.

[OpanaPointer]

https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/trs/trsb ... urvey.html

[histan]

Hi Richard

Your effort at posting a link has not gone unappreciated.
I don't remember ever having a copy of this particular report.

I have had a look at some of the data.

In particular, the comparison between the training hours given for all operational types in Figure 9 offers some extra information to put alongside the training hours given in Figure 31 in the Report of the British Bombing Survey (which I already have) which are for fighter pilots, which seems to be a copy of Figure 8.
This is very useful.

Regards

John