Reach of NGFS Normandy

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Sheldrake
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Sheldrake » 30 May 2021 11:53

Delta Tank wrote:
30 May 2021 01:31
OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021 19:27
On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
Where was this Church steeple?

Mike
There were plenty to choose from
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Rots
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Le Port Benouville - that is from either a PIAT or a 40mm bofors

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Breville -au-Monts - this definitely involved a cruiser or battleship.

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Colville-sur-Mer

Since it is an American story my guess it was Colville on the eastern edge of Omaha which might have been a plausible target for a destroyer. Incidentally not used as an artillery HQ.

OpanaPointer
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by OpanaPointer » 30 May 2021 12:36

Delta Tank wrote:
30 May 2021 01:31
OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021 19:27
On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
Where was this Church steeple?

Mike
I digitized the memorial "50th Anniversary" books from the CMH about 25 years ago, it was in one of those. If you go to Hyperwar and search for "D-Day" you should find it. Either Omaha or Utah beach, obviously. Hunting it down on a cell phone is tedious for me right now.
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OpanaPointer
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by OpanaPointer » 30 May 2021 12:37

Thanks, Sheldrake! And yeah, unlikely usage was unlikely.
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Delta Tank
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Delta Tank » 30 May 2021 16:05

OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021 19:27
On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
From Sheldrakes post, I am assuming that this is in reference to Colleville sur Mer.

From memory the bombardment of Colleville sur Mer was a preplanned mission that was fired on a time schedule. Captain Joe Dawson and some other Soldiers had already cleared the church, killing two Germans. Dawson’s company had not suffered hardly any casualties until the US Navy began their bombardment of Colleville sur Mer.

I don’t have any of my books with me, it is probably explained in the book entitled “Omaha Beachhead 6 June-13 June”.

Mike

Delta Tank
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Delta Tank » 30 May 2021 16:12

Delta Tank wrote:
30 May 2021 16:05
OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021 19:27
On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
From Sheldrakes post, I am assuming that this is in reference to Colleville sur Mer.

From memory the bombardment of Colleville sur Mer was a preplanned mission that was fired on a time schedule. Captain Joe Dawson and some other Soldiers had already cleared the church, killing two Germans. Dawson’s company had not suffered hardly any casualties until the US Navy began their bombardment of Colleville sur Mer.

I don’t have any of my books with me, it is probably explained in the book entitled “Omaha Beachhead 6 June-13 June”.

Mike
Brief explanation, there is more I am sure to the story. From “Omaha Beachhead 6June-13June”. Page 99. https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/100 ... Colleville

“A little after noon, a section of G started into the western edge of the village, but was unable to progress against strong resistance after seizing the first few buildings. The rest of the company was extended to the west, and the section farthest out on that wing lost contact. By some misunderstanding, the two 116th sections withdrew toward the bivouac area. Small groups of enemy filtered through the gaps, a pillbox near the head of E-3 draw was still in action, and fire came from flanks and rear, giving the impression of encirclement. For the next two hours, Company G fought on the defensive, inflicting 18 casualties on the enemy. This action marked the nearest approach on D Day to a German counterattack made in any strength. At about 1500, the situation was relieved by the arrival of the 2d Battalion, 18th Infantry, which came up from E-1 draw with orders to take over the 2d Battalion, 16th Infantry's mission. But Company G was unable to get farther into Colleville, and suffered eight casualties when supporting naval fire hit the houses in the village. Enemy resistance was unshaken by the bombardment.”

I have been to Colleville several times, the Church is on the western side of town. I even got to meet Joe Dawson at the 50th Anniversary of D-Day in 1994.

Mike

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by OpanaPointer » 30 May 2021 17:03

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/US ... index.html

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Caption, page 94, "THE VIERVILLE DRAW UNDER FIRE. The time of the action pictured above is uncertain, but this may have been the bombardment between 1200 and 1300 that knocked out the strongpoints. The Vierville steeple, in the background, was later demolished by naval fire.
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Richard Anderson
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Richard Anderson » 30 May 2021 17:33

OpanaPointer wrote:
30 May 2021 17:03
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/US ... index.html

Image
Caption, page 94, "THE VIERVILLE DRAW UNDER FIRE. The time of the action pictured above is uncertain, but this may have been the bombardment between 1200 and 1300 that knocked out the strongpoints. The Vierville steeple, in the background, was later demolished by naval fire.
Yeah, the problem with that is it nearly killed Norman Cota and and the Rangers and 116th Infantry troops approaching the draw from the south - from inland. By 1200-0100, Company C, 2d Rangers had seized WN 73 and the west side of the D1 Draw, while the 5th Rangers, Company B, 2d Rangers, and elements of the 116th Infantry had seized WN 70 and Vierville.
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OpanaPointer
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by OpanaPointer » 30 May 2021 19:04

"You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. Then we added sailors."
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Richard Anderson
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Richard Anderson » 30 May 2021 20:20

OpanaPointer wrote:
30 May 2021 19:04
"You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. Then we added sailors."
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 31 May 2021 17:51

Heres the Church steeple version from McManus history of the US 1st ID. Elements of 16th Inf reached Coleville in the afternoon 6th June Part were Captain Dawsons Company & others from H Company. A mortar observation team from H Company had occupied the church steeple. According to ships logs naval bombardment of Coleville started at 18:12. Exactly who initiated this attack McManus does not say. Neither company in Coleville had the ability to communicate on the naval gun fire radio communications. The NGF spotter team that had been attached to this battalion for the assault had been rendered hors combat early on, probably crossing the beach.

Four destroyers participated in the attack. The USS Harding fired 133 5" rounds, the USS Emons & USS Baldwin together may have fired 66 between them at the Coleville are, and the USS Thompson states that from 18:12 to 18:22 hours it fired 23 rounds at a 'church steeple' behind Easy Red Beach. Anyway thats the McManus version. I suspect the fires were not all aimed at the Church steeple, but some distributed around the Coleville area. With the NGF Spotting team lost any messages to stop the naval fire would have had to wend their way from the battalion CP to regiment, & the possibly the division tactical HQ on the beach. Wherever a functioning NGF liaison with a radio was still operating.

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Delta Tank » 31 May 2021 22:01

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
31 May 2021 17:51
Heres the Church steeple version from McManus history of the US 1st ID. Elements of 16th Inf reached Coleville in the afternoon 6th June Part were Captain Dawsons Company & others from H Company. A mortar observation team from H Company had occupied the church steeple. According to ships logs naval bombardment of Coleville started at 18:12. Exactly who initiated this attack McManus does not say. Neither company in Coleville had the ability to communicate on the naval gun fire radio communications. The NGF spotter team that had been attached to this battalion for the assault had been rendered hors combat early on, probably crossing the beach.

Four destroyers participated in the attack. The USS Harding fired 133 5" rounds, the USS Emons & USS Baldwin together may have fired 66 between them at the Coleville are, and the USS Thompson states that from 18:12 to 18:22 hours it fired 23 rounds at a 'church steeple' behind Easy Red Beach. Anyway thats the McManus version. I suspect the fires were not all aimed at the Church steeple, but some distributed around the Coleville area. With the NGF Spotting team lost any messages to stop the naval fire would have had to wend their way from the battalion CP to regiment, & the possibly the division tactical HQ on the beach. Wherever a functioning NGF liaison with a radio was still operating.
Carl,

IIRC it was a planned fire, ie to be shot at a certain time unless told not to fire.

Mike

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 31 May 2021 23:03

Could be. Which would connect to the general breakdown in communications. A NGF spotter team with the battalion or a regiment liaison would habee up dating the fire support on the location of US units.

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