German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

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CS1985
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Re: German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

Post by CS1985 » 10 Oct 2021 11:36

In this particular case it is the operational report by General Maczek that mentions 164th ID. It is stated that on one particular day of September prisoners were taken from several German units (I can't remember the exact date; I would have to check it in the report - early September anyway). Then, there is a list of units with some specific numbers about how many officers and enlisted men from which unit were taken prisoner. It is this part of the report where 164th ID appears. Probably one can assume that it's a typo and it should state "64th ID".

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 10 Oct 2021 13:56

It should be borne in mind that this month of September sees almost all the units and subunits of the AOK. 7 and 15- 1.Fallschirm.Armee then in retreat, transit through Holland. A challenge to navigate on the part of the allied intelligence officers !!!!!

CS1985
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Re: German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

Post by CS1985 » 10 Oct 2021 18:50

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
10 Oct 2021 13:56
A challenge to navigate on the part of the allied intelligence officers !!!!!
Certainly a challange but probably not as difficult as one could expect. The prisoners were main source of information. The numbers of the divisions keep repeating in the Polish reports through September and early October. As I have listed at the beginning of the thread:

59 ID, 64 ID, 245 ID, 346 ID, 711 ID, 712 ID, 719 ID...

...minus 164 ID.

You can see for yourself. I attach the reports to this post. They cover the actions of 1st Polish AD since 7th August to 6th October 1944. They are operational reports by General Maczek. Somebody uploaded it on the Internet about 20 years ago (probably Canadian military). I don't think they are still available (at least the reports on the actions after the Normandy battle).

The coordinates in the reports refer to the wartime maps which have been published in E. McGilvray's "Black Devils' March". Some maps (Normandy) are also available in the color version on the Internet (Canadian archives site).

Maybe somebody here is in possesion of some later reports and would be so nice to share them?
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AETIUS 1980
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Re: German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 10 Oct 2021 19:05

Good evening,
A good summary of the actions undertaken, now lacks the possible Intelligence Summaries edited by the Polish division. Failing to be always precise, they make it possible to give life to the often hidden units.
Keep on searching!!!
Best regards
AETIUS

CS1985
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Re: German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

Post by CS1985 » 11 Oct 2021 18:42

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
10 Oct 2021 19:05
Good evening,
A good summary of the actions undertaken, now lacks the possible Intelligence Summaries edited by the Polish division. Failing to be always precise, they make it possible to give life to the often hidden units.
Keep on searching!!!
Best regards
AETIUS
I surely will. Such summaries could be in Sikorski's Institute in London.
Regards

CS1985
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Re: German divisions facing Polish 1st Armored Division in Normandy and the Netherlands

Post by CS1985 » 21 Oct 2023 16:31

So I managed to lay my hands on some documents of the German units fighting against the 1st PAD in September 1944. Here is a puzzle which I found while browsing through the reports of 712th ID (actually I partially solved it).

It is stated that on September 14th 44 a unit by the name of 25./L.S. 485 (B) was subordinated to the GR 732 of the division. "L.S. 485" stands for "Landesschutzen-Bataillon 485" while "B" stands for "Bahnschutzen", since the battalion was formed of the railway guard servicemen. The question is: what "25." stands for? 25 men? 25th platoon (the battalion had 8 companies when formed)? For whole I know this unit was far from battalion strength after the losses it sustained in early September. Hopefully, somebody will be kind enough to enlighten me in this matter.

Regards

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