US Army logistical failures in NWE

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Richard Anderson
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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#61

Post by Richard Anderson » 24 May 2022, 23:41

Gee, I wonder why no US troop transports were lost to U-Boot during the war? Perhaps because prior to winning the battle of the Atlantic each troopship crossing was a major naval event? Like AT10 on 15 January 1942, where five troopships carrying parts of the 34th Division to Ireland and parts of the 5th Division to Iceland was escorted by Texas, Wasp, Quincy, Tuscaloosa, and Wichita, and eighteen destroyers? AT12 in February was a slightly larger repeat with seven troopships with New York, Philadelphia, and sixteen destroyers as close escort, while AT15 at the end of April brought in the last on Aquitania. So three major convoys to get the entire 34th Division to Ireland and parts of the 5th Division to Iceland.

Never mind of course that the 34th Division was barely organized, indifferently trained, and poorly equipped at the time and was barely better ten months later when committed to TORCH? Or that the entire trained amphibious assault force of the United States consisted of three divisions, but with few and underdeveloped landing ships and craft to transport them in. The notion that the U.S. Army was prepared for a major amphibious assault on Continental Europe is simply absurd as even a cursory glance at the actual mobilization would show anyone except the inveterate fantasist.
Last edited by Richard Anderson on 25 May 2022, 00:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Kingfish
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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#62

Post by Kingfish » 25 May 2022, 00:28

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
24 May 2022, 10:50
What's the primary mission? Win the war.
you forget to include "...in an effective and efficient a manner as possible". Methinks allocating scarce shipping resources to transfer rolling stock to the continent, all in anticipation of the great, great, great swan that will take the allies across undefended Rhine bridges, does not meet that requirement.
Is there ANY Wallied strategy that risks losing the war? No - Germany loses even if the infant love child of Ike's mistress draws up Overlord. Once the Wallies switch from cheering on the Red Army to actually fighting a big chunk of the German Army, the end is close.


So the German collapse is not only easily foreseeable, but also inevitable?

Lets assume for the moment that someone within the post-Overlord planning committee had the foresight in 1944 to see what you just claimed. In trying to convince his other colleagues of the vital importance of shipping rolling stock in lieu of tanks and artillery, what point of historical reference would he use? The German campaign in the East? The Italian campaign? North Africa?

In other words, where can he point to on a map and claim "See what happened here, it will happen here as well, so let's plan accordingly"?
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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#63

Post by Kingfish » 25 May 2022, 00:28

Kingfish wrote:
25 May 2022, 00:28
TheMarcksPlan wrote:
24 May 2022, 10:50
What's the primary mission? Win the war.
you forget to include "...in an effective and efficient a manner as possible". Methinks allocating scarce shipping resources to transfer rolling stock to the continent, all in anticipation of the great, great, great swan that will take the allies across undefended Rhine bridges, does not meet that requirement.
Is there ANY Wallied strategy that risks losing the war? No - Germany loses even if the infant love child of Ike's mistress draws up Overlord. Once the Wallies switch from cheering on the Red Army to actually fighting a big chunk of the German Army, the end is close.

So the German collapse is not only easily foreseeable, but also inevitable?

Lets assume for the moment that someone within the post-Overlord planning committee had the foresight in 1944 to see what you just claimed. In trying to convince his other colleagues of the vital importance of shipping rolling stock in lieu of tanks and artillery, what point of historical reference would he use? The German campaign in the East? The Italian campaign? North Africa?

In other words, where can he point to on a map and claim "See what happened here, it will happen here as well, so let's plan accordingly"?
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#64

Post by Kingfish » 25 May 2022, 00:29

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
24 May 2022, 10:50
What's the primary mission? Win the war.
you forget to include "...in an effective and efficient a manner as possible". Methinks allocating scarce shipping resources to transfer rolling stock to the continent, all in anticipation of the great, great, great swan that will take the allies across undefended Rhine bridges, does not meet that requirement.
Is there ANY Wallied strategy that risks losing the war? No - Germany loses even if the infant love child of Ike's mistress draws up Overlord. Once the Wallies switch from cheering on the Red Army to actually fighting a big chunk of the German Army, the end is close.

So the German collapse is not only easily foreseeable, but also inevitable?

Lets assume for the moment that someone within the post-Overlord planning committee had the foresight in 1944 to see what you just claimed. In trying to convince his other colleagues of the vital importance of shipping rolling stock in lieu of tanks and artillery, what point of historical reference would he use? The German campaign in the East? The Italian campaign? North Africa?

In other words, where can he point to on a map and claim "See what happened here, it will happen here as well, so let's plan accordingly"?
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#65

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 25 May 2022, 00:30

Richard Anderson wrote:
24 May 2022, 23:41
The notion that the U.S. Army was prepared for a major amphibious assault on Continental Europe is simply absurd
I have multiple responses to your points re 1942 but let's stick with 1943 for now. Was the US Army simply unprepared to tackle the German Army at that time? Seems a Wehrabooish take.

As your own research finds, the German Army had no more than 20-40% combat effectiveness superiority over the American army during the Italian campaign. Why should they be afraid of fighting them, given a sufficient numerical advantage?
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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#66

Post by Richard Anderson » 25 May 2022, 00:37

I am amazed that the U.S. Army in 1942-1943 was unaware of combat effectiveness studies done twenty-five to sixty years later. I suspect the General Electric Prescience Generator invented at Area 51 was not fully functional yet because the Alien Space Bats had yet to banish the Lizard Overlords from Earth.
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Re: US Army logistical failures in NWE

#67

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 25 May 2022, 00:42

Richard Anderson wrote:
25 May 2022, 00:37
I am amazed that the U.S. Army in 1942-1943 was unaware of combat effectiveness studies done twenty-five to sixty years later. I suspect the General Electric Prescience Generator invented at Area 51 was not fully functional yet because the Alien Space Bats had yet to banish the Lizard Overlords from Earth.
That's a disingenuous response. American leaders knew their boys could fight the Nazis during 1943, contrary to your (internet) notion that the Germans were just too good for us. Your (non-internet) research only substantiates the contemporary US feeling that American soldiers could fight Nazis.

Why do you believe the Germans were too scary for the US army to confront in France during 1943?
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