Holland or other?

[Timo]

The reason why people from English speaking countries call it "Holland" dates from the 17th century.

In 1581 seven (from a total of 17) northern "gewesten" (sort of provinces) denounced the Catholic king of Spain and decided to proceed as an independant protestant nation (the other ten gewesten were Catholic and are today Belgium and Luxembourg).

The nation, officially the "Republiek der Zeven Vereenigde Nederlanden" (Republic of Seven United Netherlands) depended on trade with the east- and westindies for its income and for this build a large merchant fleet and a strong navy to protect this fleet against the Spanish and Portugese. Of course (geographical) the costal provinces ran this fleet, made the money and thus its representatves were the main political power in The Netherlands. And of course their strong navy was not welcomed by that other strong navy, the British fleet. This resulted in four wars during the 17th century, each basically a series of clashes between the two navies.

Now, in the eyes of the British they were not at war with "the Netherlands", they had troubles with the politicians representing the most powerful coastal provinces Holland (today split in the provinces Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland) and Zeeland, and for that were at war with "Holland". Thats how "Holland" became synonymous for "The Netherlands".

[Wiking Ruf]

8)

[Thunder]

Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful..

I've read that the Allies needed the port of Antwerp, which may have ended the war earlier. My question is, why was it so diffucult to take? Was it the approach through Zeeland? Heavily fortified? Need details..

Also, was Amsterdam not a useful port for the Axis? Someone mentioned the port of Rotterdam as huge now, but was it in WWII?

[Alan Soderstrom]

Hi,
Thanks for this information on The Netherlands, my relatives always said my uncle was buried in Holland. After researching my uncle and his demise, I found that he was never buried in Holland, but Ruurlo, Gelderland, The Netherlands. So I have attempted to correct my relatives on this matter.
My uncle is C.V. Soderstrom, buried in Ruurlo General cemetary, the only commonwealth casualty I know of in the cemetary. RCAF 434 Squadron, 17 June 1944, I should have a website up within a week or so in tribute of him, just tweeking a few pages.
I would like to thank all of the people of the Netherlands, (and Europe) for the upkeep on all war graves, it is appreciated by many people around the world.
Regards, Alan Soderstrom

[Timo]

Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful..

...My pleasure

I've read that the Allies needed the port of Antwerp, which may have ended the war earlier. My question is, why was it so diffucult to take? Was it the approach through Zeeland? Heavily fortified? Need details..

...Problem was that even after taking Antwerpen (Antwerp) they could not use the port. To get from the North Sea to the port ships had to pass through the Westerschelde, 45 km of water to the entrance of the Schelde River. And the Westerschelde was in German occupied Zeeland, The Netherlands. Thus the Allies needed to launch Operation "Switchback" (the crossing of the Leopolds canal), Operation "Vitality" (the advance on Zuid-Beveland) Operation "Infatuate" (the raid on Walcheren) to open the waterway to the port of Antwerp. These operations started on October 6th and it took Canadian and British forces one month to finish the job. The German commander of Walcheren, Generalleutnant Daser, surrendered on November 7th. From then on the port of Antwerp could be used by the allies.

Also, was Amsterdam not a useful port for the Axis? Someone mentioned the port of Rotterdam as huge now, but was it in WWII?

...In short: no. Both cities are way to the north of Antwerp in what was deep into German occupied territory and were out of reach for the allies when compared to Antwerp. Both towns were liberated in May 1945. Rotterdam was already main port. Amsterdam wasn't because after the Dutch build the Afsluitdijk in the 1930's, only a narrow canal connected the port of Amsterdam with the North Sea.

[Conacher1941]

Are Canadians particularly welcome in The Netherlands? I was always taught in school that they were very grateful for our liberating them, and thought I'd now take this opportunity to ask for sure.

Cheers,
...Conacher

[Timo]

They absolutely are, just like they were back in those days.

[Windward]

Chinese call the Netherlands "He Lan", obviously come from "Holland". So is Japanese "O-Ran-To".

[Conacher1941]

They absolutely are, just like they were back in those days.

Sowould you say that travelling to Netherlands would be a good idea then?
How can Dutchmen distinguish between Canadians and Americans, or can they not?

...Conacher

P.S. As long as we're being politically correct, is Dutch an acceptable name for people from Netherlands?

[General]

They absolutely are, just like they were back in those days.

Sowould you say that travelling to Netherlands would be a good idea then?
How can Dutchmen distinguish between Canadians and Americans, or can they not?

Difficult, maybe you can wear a small Canadian flag on your jacket.

P.S. As long as we're being politically correct, is Dutch an acceptable name for people from Netherlands?

Yes

[Sturmman]

''Sowould you say that travelling to Netherlands would be a good idea then? ''

That would be a AMAZINGLY GOOD plan id gehehe!
Anyway i think you could say a lot of the Dutch people really are greatfull to all the liberators! But on the other site the jonger people arent quite aware (in most of the cases), what happend here over 60 years ago! But anyway all Canadians are welcome here i can say

Regards Sebas

[HaEn]

With the inval in 1940 the Dutchmen fight very brave at the Moerdijkbrug (bridge over the IJselmeer) and even succeeded in destroying it.

Since when was the Moerdijkbrug spanning the IJsselmeer (Zuiderzee) ?
That's a hell of a long way for a bridge.
Even nakijken in je geografie boek !!!!!
HN.

[Buck_Compton]

Hey Guys

I've just logged in for the first time to this site. And i noticed this thread. Well i know something about the so called 'Battle of/for the Scheldt' i've made a historiacal report on it for history (yes i know i'm military but in my spare time is study havo). Well any ways i have the battle narrowed down to the small battle's like those at the Braakman and the Walcheren causeway. So if you need information about it i could and try to translate the work i made and mail or upload it to you.
Second of all i don't take it as an insult when somebody starts joking around that i should be from belgium (seen the fact i'm an inhabitant from limburg) let them joke.....i know better our BLS is from Limburg. And about our dialect, i tought myself to talk plain Dutch without an accent and i can even speak my own dialect with a slight Dutch accent *hehehe*.
Also i'm a Close Combat modder. wich means as much that i'm redesigning the old game in to the way i want it if you like to know more about it you should try http://www.closecombat.org . Anyway i'm making a mod about the Battle of the Scheldt. intrest in it is very low because the main public is only aware of Market Garden, the Bulge and Normandy. They never heard of things like the the Scheldt or the 2nd battle of Arnhem.
about the Dutch youth not knowing about the Canadian involment in the Dutch liberation....well thats true. They don't care about it and who to blame them. Time goes on. I'm 19 years old and I guess one of the few who still is intrested in the war efforts of 1940-1945. But as most people will think that the Netherlands where liberated by the Brits and Canadians, then they are making a mistake. South Limburg was the first part of The Netherlands to be liberated by the north flank of the Americans (old hickory regiment and 2nd armoured i believe) whom was heading for Aachen (the first German city to fall in Allied hands). Also the Americans fought near Eindhoven Nijmegen and in the Peel and around the city of Breda. also there where Polish armoured troops wich fought in Zeeland (around Axel) and in Brabandt Moerdijk bridges and Breda. also there where French men involved in our liberation. The French free forces (i believe they belonged to a commando unit) Parachuted in to Drenthe concering vital point to the Canadian rush in to the north part of The Netherlands. also some Norwegians fougt in Walcheren in the triangle of Vrouwenpolder Vlissingen (Dishoek) and Westkappelle. also i heard some rumours of Dutch SS men helping out the Canadians fighting at the Veluwe but in my opinion this is impossible seen the fact the Dutch SS was pinned down in the Battle for Berlin. or what remained of them after being slaughterd in the East.
about the Moerdijk bridges, i don't know how it is possible the that the Moerdijk bridges could over span the Zuiderzee.........it has been closed with the afsluitdijk...... by the way the defences on the side of Friesland do they still exist??? Any way the Moerdijk bridges are over the so called Hollands Diep i believe in fact it are 2 bridges, 1 rail bridge and a few hundred meters to the west a road bridge. i believe both where blown up in may 1940 and in november 1944 not sure of that.
What also very strange is, is the place where the Germans signed the unconditionaly surrender to the Allies. everyone seems to think it was signed in hotel the world (hotel de wereld) where whe have the defilee every year. But in fact this seems to be a mistake. because prins Bernhard was to unable to come to Wageningen both parties where forced to sign the surrender in a railwagon somewhere in the woods near Bennekom. Hope i informed you a bit.

Greetz Buck

[Robdutch]

With the inval in 1940 the Dutchmen fight very brave at the Moerdijkbrug (bridge over the IJselmeer) and even succeeded in destroying it.

Our soldiers did fought bravely but never managed to destroy the Moerdijkbridge. That is how German could advance into Vesting Holland.

PS Netherland is the official name of my country

Bye

[Robdutch]

[quote="Buck_Compton"]Hey Guys

also i heard some rumours of Dutch SS men helping out the Canadians fighting at the Veluwe but in my opinion this is impossible seen the fact the Dutch SS was pinned down in the Battle for Berlin. or what remained of them after being slaughterd in the East.

There were Dutch SS fighting in our country. They were part of the so called ss Brigade Landstorm Nederland. Later it was renamed into the 34 ss Division Landstorm Nederland. The Dutch SS fought at various places in our country including the Veluwe.

Bye