D-Day remembered.

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CHRISCHA
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D-Day remembered.

Post by CHRISCHA » 05 Jun 2004 10:51

I've been watching the events leading up to the D-Day celebrations on the television. I had the opportunity to attend as a friend drives WW2 vehicles for military shows, TV etc. and his club and their vehicles are part of the parade.

I wish I'd taken a sickie now. I am engrossed in the coverage.

Although I am very aware that this is jsut a part of WW2 being remembered it seems that it is used as the main WW2 rememberance/celebration.

My only fustration is that many of our politicians are using it as a forum to voice issues such as Iraq, terrorism, etc.

I wish the event could be purely a rememberence.

Chris. (Politicly niave!).

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reichpilot
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Post by reichpilot » 05 Jun 2004 11:24

My feelings exactly. All this will be is a cover for a political gain. That war cannot be compared to this present day war. That was the last REAL war ever fought. All the rest have been pretty much political endevours. I think it is wrong for the leaders to say anything else outside of thanking the men who fought in WWII this weekend, and keep it all on the WWII theme. I know "our man" will use it to his benefit. You can count on hearing the word "terrorism" from his mouth probably 5 times in any given speech. It's one of the few words he can say correctly! :lol:

Don

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 05 Jun 2004 12:07

Apart the fact that WW2 has been compared to Iraq (!) what made me angry in the speech is that (if I understood it completely) it has been stated that WW2 started after the attack on Pearl Harbor ... typical ... and what about Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Danemark, France, Great Britain etc. being involved before Pearl Harbor ? WW2 didn't start late 1941 (with an intervention on the Western/African theatre in 1942) as WW1 didn't start late 1917.

Regards,

David

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » 05 Jun 2004 12:57

Fellas, I was just watching part of an ongoing news broadcast about D-Day, and the celebrations that are about to take place on site. I heard Tom Brokaw talk about how "The Americans landed," and "the Americans did this, or that," and I suddenly really understood why you non-American types are getting so angry.

You're right!! Just more evidence that the US media is f*cked up!!

On behalf of all Americans, especially those of us who know better:

Sorry! :cry:

CHRISCHA
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Post by CHRISCHA » 05 Jun 2004 13:43

I know what you mean.

I suppose every nations media is going to give the perspective from their own countrys point of view, but all the men who fought should be remembered with respect, not by some gigly, ill informed, uncaring news reader/presenter.

The danger is with some leaders or media giving a one sided point of view, it has an adverse affect on remembering the vetrans. The US soldiers in WW2 should be remembered as great men by thier nation, as I know everyone here does, but hearing some of the biased crap spouted out makes me angry.

The worst quote was someone on TV saying 200 American troops died on Omaha rather than the 2,000. Very sad indeed.

The British vetrans I've seen interviewed are definately the last of a great generation, and I for one am exrememly humbled by them, and indeed all the vetrans of the War.

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davethelight
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Post by davethelight » 05 Jun 2004 13:45

Tom, I applaude you. :) :wink:

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 05 Jun 2004 14:21

Hello,

On French TV there are many reportages speaking about the wide US involvement, the landing troops and the airborne troops ... showing many wartime movies and photos, interviews of veterans, ceremonies in the cemeteries etc. ... but they speak also largely about the British troops, especially about the Canadian soldiers, about the German point of view from the young soldiers in their positions etc. and also about the 177 French marine infantry commandos (Commando Kieffer) who landed in Ouistreham / Riva Bella during the first attack wave (Sword Beach). Generally the French journalists know nothing about the French SAS and sometimes they say big stupidities like Waffen-SS defending Omaha etc.
They speak also from Belgian, Polish troops etc. ... clearly not only speaking from one nation or one side involved.

Regards,

David

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Post by LEVE » 05 Jun 2004 14:47

I've just read several news stories from varied sources about the D-day invasion. One quoted Allied sources as saying over 19,000 French civilian deaths occurred due to softening up bombing of German positions by the 8th Air force. That was a figure I've not heard before and it stunned me. If true, it would mean that the French civilian losses were almost four times those of the allied combatants on D-day.

Does anyone have confirmation of this figure for French civilian deaths?

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 05 Jun 2004 14:55

Yes, during WW2 the French army lost 250,000 men (92,000 to 120,000 alone in the 45 days of 1940 depends from the sources were real deaths are sometimes classifies as MIA).The US military losses are of about 300,000 men if I remember well for a really larger country.
The number of French civilian losses during WW2 is of 390,000 people ... including 67,000 losses due to allied air bombings. There were alone 50,000 French civilian losses during the battle of Normandy and its preparation. But that did not hinder the French civilians of being grateful to their liberators.

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David

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reichpilot
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Post by reichpilot » 05 Jun 2004 15:05

Very interesting figures. Is there a site with these posted? I'd like to read that.

So far watching the shows here in the U.S., I haven't seen one German interviewed. It's been pretty much the old G.I.'s and the occasional French man or woman. I have only seen the German cemetery once, and that was for about 30 seconds. These celebrations should be to remember ALL and not just the "victors". It is true that the key word is American, American, American. I have hardly heard the words French, British, or Canadian. Maybe WE should have told them what to cover!!!

Don

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Robert Rojas
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RE: D-Day Remembered

Post by Robert Rojas » 05 Jun 2004 15:40

Greetings to both citizen Chrischa and the community as a whole. Well sir, in respect to your introductory posting of Saturday - June 05, 2004 - 10:51am, old Uncle Bob will refrain from tainting this historical commemoration with the all too familiar, but ill disguised, political rancor which THE LOUNGE is infamously noted. Let all of us simply remember the momentous events that transpired sixty years ago. Do it for EVERYONE who gave their all on June 06, 1944. It's just some friendly food for thought. In anycase, I would like to bid this thread's readership a copactic day no matter where you might honor those who sacrificed on this sobering anniversary.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :|
Last edited by Robert Rojas on 06 Jun 2004 01:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Psycho Mike
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Post by Psycho Mike » 05 Jun 2004 15:56

http://search.eb.com/normandy/documents.html

Operation Overlord- known by the media as D-Day.

The plan was to split the German military and force them into fighting two fronts. A sneak attack, the Germans didn't know what was happening until we hit. Unlike today, the press gave away nothing.

The idea of taking the beaches was simple. Keep pouring men onto the beaches until the Germans ran out of ammunition.

The water turned deep red that day.

We use the word freedom a lot. As if by saying it we define it. Those that died however, died for the freedom to not be dominated by another nation. To keep our culture, our way of life.

On this site you will find audio from soldiers describing the landing on each beach. Letters to loved ones. Military documents. You'll even find Rommel's thoughts on the attack.

8000 dead in one day. With their friends dead beside them- they fought on.

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Lawrence
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Post by Lawrence » 07 Jun 2004 01:28

I take my hat off to the brave men who fought at Normandy, sixty years ago today. I also remember the brave men at the battle of Midway, which ended sixty two years ago today.
I do not wish to diminish any memories and the sacrifice given by the Allied soldiers during the battle of Normandy, but the media has a bad habit of overcovering this event, making it seem like nothing else happened in the war. You'd be amazed how many people think that D-Day was the first time we fought the Germans. 8O
The media is fond of saying that the battle won the war, but I'll be the first to disagree. While very important, the invasion took pressure off the decivise front in the East, and sped up Germany's ultimate defeat. The invasion saved many lives, Germans, Russians, especially Jews, and saved Europe from domination at the hands of Stalin. But it still surprises me that so many people have never heard of the battle of Stalingrad, El Alimein, Kursk, Okinawa, Midway etc. I'd put these battles on par with Normandy in order of importance, but plenty do not get the media attention they deserve.
I suppose that with the coming of the Cold War, the myth that the invasion was the turning point of the war took root and stayed entrenched. The Russian contribution was oftened ignored (outside researchers) and still is today. The war was indeed a global conflict, and it's a shame that it's often not treated as such.
Last edited by Lawrence on 07 Jun 2004 11:21, edited 1 time in total.

Kephra
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Post by Kephra » 07 Jun 2004 07:55

It's kind of sad, that the ww2-Battle -I'm most interested in- starts its 60th anniversary this year too. But I'm shure there will be no big celebrations -not even keepsakes.
“June 6, 1944 was not my longest day. December 7th 1944, was my longest and most miserable day on earth during my past 75 years.”

Lieutenant Lomell, 2nd Ranger Battalion US Army, 1995
more Information:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=31270
----------------
Grüße!
Kephra

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » 07 Jun 2004 08:11

reichpilot wrote:So far watching the shows here in the U.S., I haven't seen one German interviewed. It's been pretty much the old G.I.'s and the occasional French man or woman. I have only seen the German cemetery once, and that was for about 30 seconds. These celebrations should be to remember ALL and not just the "victors". It is true that the key word is American, American, American. I have hardly heard the words French, British, or Canadian. Maybe WE should have told them what to cover!!!
Don, I have to take issue, just a little. I've been taping the History Channel specials on D-Day this week. I've gotten to watch a couple of them when they were replayed while I was at work.

Now, we all know about the faults and foibles illustrated on so many of the History Channel presentations. However, they seem to make an effort to get perspectives from the Germans. The episode we just finished watching talked to a machinegunner on the beach, and a guy from 21 Panzer.

So, while you're probably right about the mainstream media, at least History Channel is doing something right in this regard!

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