Dieppe??

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fockewulf190
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Dieppe??

Post by fockewulf190 » 22 Sep 2004 07:44

I heard that the landings are dieppe was known to the Germans beforehand?? Is it right saw it in a forum....

Dear Singha,the truth of the raid on Dieppe is that the entire plan was secretly "sold" to the Jerries by none other than the cigar smoking portly gent who occupied No.10 at the time. It was part of an audacious scheme to con Hitler into believing the genuineness of information of certain agents and informers.The British double-agent who "sold" the info to the Jerries,pretended to be pro-Nazi in real life.He actually met Hitler later on during the war.He was a personal family friend of Churchill,Ribbentrop-the German Foreign Minister and was run by Morton,another common friend of all three,who was one of Churchill's most important intelligence heads during WW2.He played his role perfectly and Hitler (especially because of the Ribbentrop connection) was thus convinced that the Allies would invade France at Calais.It worked.Later on,the same agent was part of the team (including Ian Fleming,who used the agents experiences in creating 007) that rescued Martin Borman from the Bunker just before Berlin fell.Borman had the key to the Nazi loot in Swiss banks,which was why he was rescued.The loot was secretly usurped by the US and Britain.The affected Jews and Europeans from whom it had been stolen got nothing!Borman lived happily in Buenos Aires.He later died in Argentina of old age.After his death his body was secretly brought back to Berlin to be "discovered accidently" by construction workers!

Winston Churchill was perhaps the most ruthless and effective head of state during WW2.Only Stalin compares with him.His genius was understanding that the most vital ingredient to winning the war was winning the intelligence war and his methods of using even the most ruthless and controversial means to achieve it are unique.Several maritime convoys to Russia were sent to their certain death by Churchill, as he did not want the Nazis alerted that he had broken their code .Churchill was willing to sacrifice the lives of thousands of allied troops to protect his greatest prize,the cracking of the Nazi codes.It was the key with which Britain turned the tide against Germany in WW2.


I never knew about this... please tell me if its real...
regards...


this is the link...
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/phpBB2/vi ... &start=200

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redcoat
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Post by redcoat » 22 Sep 2004 11:07

Its complete and utter nonsense, a pack of lies from beginning to end.

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fockewulf190
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Post by fockewulf190 » 23 Sep 2004 06:20

well redcoat..... I am not sure who to believe. The guy, who was telliing those statements sounds quit convincing... can you please elaborate it and give me some sources that I can counter claim him......

regards

Polynikes
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Post by Polynikes » 23 Sep 2004 16:33

The Ultra-Churchill myth started with the false claims that Churchill knew about the German raid on Coventry far enough in advance to have ordered an evacuation (as if you evacuate cities to avoid bomber raids) but didn't to protect Ultra.

British intelligence did indeed make efforts to convince the Germans of the genuineness of certain double-agents in Britain. The details of the D-Day attack for instance were fed to German intelligence but at a time when it was too late to do anything about them...a day or so later the same "source" reported that Normandy was a feint and that the real invasion was coming at Calais in a few days.

This caused Hitler to reverse a decision to send armour from the Calais area to Normady - a delay of a crucial few days.

Zbrozlo
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Post by Zbrozlo » 24 Sep 2004 08:16

Hi. I am looking for a some photos of commanders ( Lt. Col.) 2 canadian infantry regiments :
D. E. Catto
R. R. Labatt
F. K. Jasperson
D. Menard
Commanders of 3 , 4 and Royal Marine A commando:
J. F. Durnford Slater
Lord Lovat
J. P. Philips
And some information or photos about german (battalions or regiments) commanders of 302 infanterie division

Anyone can help me?
Last edited by Zbrozlo on 24 Sep 2004 14:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Aufklarung
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Post by Aufklarung » 24 Sep 2004 13:54

Zbrozlo

Scroll down to see Lt Col Catto.
http://web.archive.org/web/200201100141 ... rg/cos.htm

Can't find one of LCol Labatt or LCol Jasperson yet.


regards
A :)

Zbrozlo
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Post by Zbrozlo » 24 Sep 2004 14:18

Big thanks AUFKLARUNG!!!

Pretty portrait.

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Paul_G_Baker
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by Paul_G_Baker » 02 Dec 2012 13:22

Sorry for performing necrophilia on this thread, but I've just seen "Dieppe Uncovered" on the UK 'Yesterday' Channel.

It's a very interesting piece of research into the declassified operational files that seems to indicate that the Raid was a cover mission for an attempt to steal documents relating to (or an actual example of) a 4 rotor Enigma Machine from the German Naval HQ in the Hotel Moderne and/or German shipping in the harbour.

It was the first outing for Ian Fleming's Intelligence Assault Unit - later 30th AU - which was embarked on the River Gunboat HMS Locust (commanded by R. E. D. Ryder VC, of St Nazaire fame, who made several attempts to force the harbour entrance) under the designation of 10 Platoon, 40 RM Commando. Fleming himself was offshore on a secondary Command Ship; ready to rush any captured material back to the UK, final destination Bletchley Park.

The operation failed due to the left-flank assault (which was intended to eliminate the harbour defences) being delayed for a crucial 17 minutes, so they missed the pre-dawn darkness and landed in daylight. An attempt to put 10 Platoon (the IAU) ashore onto Red Beach later, after they had transferred to Landing Craft, was defeated by heavy German fire.
Paul

Rob Stuart
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by Rob Stuart » 03 Dec 2012 01:37

Paul,

I don't believe for a second that "the Raid was a cover mission for an attempt to steal documents relating to (or an actual example of) a 4 rotor Enigma Machine from the German Naval HQ in the Hotel Moderne and/or German shipping in the harbour." As discussed at http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/s ... hp?t=13423, starting with post #13, it's simply not plausible.


Cheers,

Rob

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by phylo_roadking » 03 Dec 2012 02:44

It's a very interesting piece of research into the declassified operational files that seems to indicate that the Raid was a cover mission for an attempt to steal documents relating to (or an actual example of) a 4 rotor Enigma Machine from the German Naval HQ in the Hotel Moderne and/or German shipping in the harbour.
Paul, this has been discussed elsewhere recently IIRC, I didn't realise that it was a telly documetnary that had brought up the idea :P

There are some major reservations against the idea - namely that the FIRST German reaction would be to sift through the ruins of said offcies to find what wasn't there ;) They weren't thick...

Secondly - it just wasn't the British way of doing things; severely untypical that such a large operation be mounted for a quite restricted aim. Look at the scale of the vital Bruneval Raid for instance - 120 men vs. Dieppe's ~10,500 men! 8O Look at FRESHMAN after Dieppe...a planned 34 men! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freshman By 1942 the British had learned to do "special forces" operations as small as the mission requirements made possible...

Also - Bruneval had been a rear aerial insertion BECAUSE beach defences were so strong...and only six months later the British were to opt for a stonkingly HUGE frontal assault instead for an acquisition mission???

Yes, Fleming's unit may certainly have been "along for the ride" all right - but exerpting material relating to their sub-operation from the record and bringing it to the fore like that has, I think, greatly exaggerated their role in the raid.
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by phylo_roadking » 10 Dec 2012 18:33

P.S. Can you imagine the reaction if that programme is ever shown in Canada??? 8O
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

Rob Stuart
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by Rob Stuart » 10 Dec 2012 22:35

It was shown in Canada - on 19 August, the 70th anniversary of the raid. Outside of forums such as this one, the reaction seems to have been fairly muted. Almost nothing in the mainstream media, so far as I know.

Rob

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by phylo_roadking » 11 Dec 2012 00:13

Maybe sensitivities have changed with time - but can you see your countrymen having been so "muted" in years gone by at the thought of so many Canadian lives lost for this?
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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Paul_G_Baker
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Re: Dieppe??

Post by Paul_G_Baker » 12 Dec 2012 11:49

There were Canadian veterans (survivors) on the programme. At least one of them thought that a chance of stopping the U-Boats 4 months earlier than Bletchley actually managed was worth the price.

My interest comes from my adoptive father having been down to go on that operation, but for a dose of Scarlet Fever!
Paul

aghart
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Re:

Post by aghart » 25 Jan 2013 21:07

redcoat wrote:Its complete and utter nonsense, a pack of lies from beginning to end.
I agree totally, well said, straight to the point.

With Dieppe, I'm always amazed that the heavy losses suffered by the RAF in this operation ( The FW 190 ruling the sky's) is not discussed more, or even known about by many people.

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