Polish Air Forces in France and the UK - short videos

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Musashi
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Polish Air Forces in France and the UK - short videos

#1

Post by Musashi » 15 Feb 2005, 22:52

Several very short videos (0.4 - 2.6 MB)

France

General Sikorski visits Lyon-Bron airfield and bids farewell Polish “Monpellier” group
Francja 1940

Polish MS-406s
Morane

Polish MS-406 at flight
Lot

Polish pilots of „Montpellier” group are being decorated by the French officers
Odznaki


The UK


President Raczkiewicz is visiting 303rd Squadron
303

President Raczkiewicz is visiting 306th Squadron, the club "Under Me-109"
306

The pilots of 306th Squadron are preparing to flight
306

Briefing of 315th Squadron
315

Planes of 303rd and 306th Squadron
303 i 306

W/C Jan Zumbach's Mustang "JZ" is scrambling leading 306th Squadron
JZ

Mustang PK-G of 315th Squadron
PK-G

Mustangs of 315th Squadron are scrambling
315 Sqn.

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David Lehmann
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#2

Post by David Lehmann » 17 Feb 2005, 00:07

Hello,

The Polish pilots (about 100 served at different times in 1940) are officially credited with 50 air victories, including 36 confirmed/sure ones (French air force and Jean Gisclon's book). They had a total of 13 KIA including 9 in the official fighter groups. The 4 others are probably in the protection groups but I was not able to find the names of the men.

The 1/145 had 4 KIA (1 on 19th May and 3 on 9th June) and 2 WIA and officialy it is credited with 17 air victories (confirmed + probable ones - and other more recent study indicates 8 confirmed and 2 probable air victories).

The last air victory involving Polish pilot was on 18th June when a patrol of 3 aircrafts from GC 1/1 led by the French adjudant-chef Delegay with 2 Polish pilots (capitaine Wezelik and sergent-chef Markiewicz) downed a He-111.

The French air force was largely inferior to the German one, especially the bomber fleet which was really small in comparison.

Operational FRONTLINE aircrafts on 10th May 1940 on the western front :
* France : 879
* UK : 384 (total of 416 : 100 fighters (Hurricane + Gladiator) and 316 attack/bombers (Fairey Battle + Blenheim)
* Belgium : 118
* Netherlands : 72
* Germany : 2589

According to Karl Heinz Frieser, the Luftwaffe lost 1236 planes + 323 damaged ones during the Western campaign (Fall Gelb). In his book from 1990, Jean-Gisclon studied the French fighter units. He indicates that the Germans lost between 10th May and 25th June a total of 1471 destroyed and 675 damaged aircrafts, these numbers are higher than the German ones. The German human losses in the Luftwaffe indicated in this book are 1355 KIAs, 1226 WIAs and 715 POWs. Often it is said that the French Air Force fighters destroyed about 800 aircrafts but modern studies indicate that this number is rather 500-600 (actually the fighter groups claim 996 victories, of those 733 "confirmed" in air combat. This last number is too high because several pilots share the same victory). The bomber / reconnaissance aircrafts defensive fire and the anti-aircraft fire from the ground are on their side estimated to be responsible for the loss of 200-300 more aircrafts. To these lost 700-900 lost aircrafts you can add those destroyed by the RAF in France and for example 250-300 transport aircrafts were lost in the Netherlands and in Belgium during the airborne operations. But already before these May/June losses, between September 1939 and April 1940, several 176 German aircrafts were lost for 82 British and 57 French ones (= 139 aircrafts for the allies). The German aircrafts shot down were later missing above London.

The main French fighters were Morane-Saulnier MS.406, Bloch MB.151/152, Curtiss H-75, Dewoitine D.520 and twin-engine Potez 631. Except the few Dewoitine D.520 the other aircrafts were inferior to the last version of the Me.109 but the French fighters scored nevertheless rather well. The Curtiss H-75 got the most air victories. France lost 892 aircrafts, although only 306 were lost in air to air combat which gives a positive ratio to the French fighters against the German aircrafts The remaining were lost due to the very dense Flak but also part of them were destroyed on the ground.

The French ace Edmond Marin-la-Meslée collected 16 (+ 4 probable ones) victories in May/June 1940 with a Curtiss H-75A. Edmond Marin-la-Meslée was pilot in the GC 1/5 which obtained 111 air victories (84 confirmed and 27 probable). The German ace Werner Mölder had been shot down over France and made prisoner like 714 other aircraft crew members during the battle (on 17th June France had still about 400-500 Luftwaffe soldiers kept prisoner).

The French fighter units lost 204 KIAs, 188 WIAs and 31 POWs according to Jean Gisclon. Among the losses he lists 14 Czech and 9 Polish pilots or engineers (in the French fighter groups + 1/145). Lyon-Bron is the airbase of GC 3/9 (commandant Viguier) with about 30 Bloch MB.152 but is also the airbase were the higher number of Polish pilots were trained and based at the beginning of their arrival.
Czech losses :
- caporal Krakora
- lieutenant Kral
- lieutenant Korok
- sous-lieutenant Mikolaseck
- lieutenant Novak
- capitaine Vasck
- lieutenant Hamsick
- sergent-chef Moravek
- lieutenant Bieberlé
- sergent Popelka
- sergent Hranicka
- sergent Kosnar
- sergent Kralik
- caporal Novak
Polish losses :
- lieutenant Bursztyn (GC 3/1)
- adjudant Zach (GC 2/6)
- commandant Virwisky (GC 2/10)
- sous-lieutenant Poniatowsky (GC 2/10)
- sous-lieutenant Dudwal (GC 2/10)
- lieutenant Dobrzinski (Polish GC 1/145)
- lieutenant Obuchowski (Polish GC 1/145)
- lieuteunant Lachowicki (Polish GC 1/145)
- caporal Ucheto (Polish GC 1/145)
GC = Groupe de Chasse = fighter group

Regards,

David


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#3

Post by Famas_1 » 24 Feb 2005, 22:23

David,

Great info, you answered a lot of my questions. Sonuvab!tch...imagine what the French could have done had they used some of the Maginot funds instead to keep pushing aircraft development during the inter-war period...

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David Lehmann
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#4

Post by David Lehmann » 25 Feb 2005, 00:46

Famas_1 wrote:David,

Great info, you answered a lot of my questions. Sonuvab!tch...imagine what the French could have done had they used some of the Maginot funds instead to keep pushing aircraft development during the inter-war period...
Hello,

With more efforts in the field of the fighters or if France, as expected, clashed with the Germans in 1941 only (or if France had not fallen in 1940) :

• Dewoitine D.520. It was already operational in 1940. This aircraft was slower than the Messerschmitt Bf.109E but clearly superior in maneuverability. A comparison was made on April 21, 1940, with an intact captured Bf.109E-3 that had been brought down in French territory. This comparison highlighted the fine qualities of the best French fighter of WW2. Had France not surrendered in June 1940, the Dewoitine D.520's career might have been comparable to that of British and German fighters.

• Dewoitine 551 (would have been a kind of French "Mustang". The Dewoitine D.551 was expected to reach 650 km/h. Armament would have been one 20mm gun in the nose and six 7.5mm MGs in the wings or one 20mm gun in the nose and two 20mm guns + four 7.5mm MGs in the wings.

• Arsenal VG33, VG36 and VG39. The Arsenal VG33 was already produced at the prototype level in 1940. It had a speed of about 558 km/h and was armed with a 20mm gun and 4 MGs. At the armistice, 10 Arsenal VG33 had been completed and 200 were in construction at various stages. It was 30 km/h faster than the Dewoitine D520 but with an older engine, it could therefore have achieved more. It arrived too late and no operationnal fighter squadron was really issued with it. The VG36 was just an other evolution, with a speed of 590 km/h and the VG39, which flew in May 1940 reached 625 km/h.

• Bloch 157 (something close to a Fw190 in the development). The MB.157 was the last development of the MB.150 series (Bloch 152 and 155 issued to the French 1940 air force). The MB.157 had a speed of 710 km/h at 7850m with its Gnôme & Rhône 14R of 1700 hp ! The older MB.15x were all completely inferior to the latest Me109 in maximum speed and climb rate ... they could even not always pursue the fastest German bombers. Its single chance was in a turning dogfight with the Me109 because it turned very good and was very stable ... its other advantage was that if well maintained it was really strong, one MB.152 came back with several 20mm hits and more than 340 7.92mm hits ... of course out of use but it came back (in other cases due to bad maintenance of the engine and some oil leakage the aircrafts were put on fire rapidly).

Regards,

David

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#5

Post by Famas_1 » 25 Feb 2005, 01:42

I had no idea about the Dewoitine D.551, Arsenal VG33, or the MB 157... 8O

It's enough to make a proud Frenchman cry. Those would have made for some nice dogfights...
:cry: :|

Very interesting.

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