Sherman ramming a KingTiger in Normandy...

Discussions on WW2 in Western Europe & the Atlantic.
Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Post by Michael Kenny » 17 Sep 2002 18:31

The German view of this incident is that just prior to the Sherman hitting the rear of this Tiger it had been disabled by 'friendly fire' and thus was a sitting duck when rammed. Gorman says he took the crew prisoner but the gunner at least was not captured and went on to serve again in Tigers. The fog of war?. Here are 3 more views of this incident and as I am a novice with this computer thing I had great trouble getting these small enough to post here so sorry about the lack of detail.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

b_c_ries
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 27 Mar 2002 04:25
Location: California USA

Post by b_c_ries » 17 Sep 2002 23:05

Lets have fun with math! we can use that stupid formula that everybody uses to prove that a 9mm is more powerful than a .45 and use it for ramming tanks! velocity squared divided by 2 multiplied by weight. King-Tiger vs Hellcat. Hellcat, 55mph squared= 3025 divided by 2=1512.5 multiply by 20 tons = 30250 really big units of energy (RBUOEs) Now lets try the King-Tiger, 26mph squared=676 divided by 2=338 multiply by 68 tons =22984 (RBUOEs) therefore a Hellcat is more powerful than a King-Tiger or the kinetic energy formula is bogus, you be the judge.
If 70 grains of IMR 4064 in a 7.92x57 case behind a 197 gr. fmj is too much then 85 grains should be just right.

Logan Hartke
Member
Posts: 1226
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 18:30
Location: Illinois, USA

Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Sep 2002 23:19

I'd rather be hit by a King Tiger at 28mph than a Hellcat at 55mph, and I don't need a calculator to say that. That's just common sense.

Logan Hartke

b_c_ries
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 27 Mar 2002 04:25
Location: California USA

Post by b_c_ries » 17 Sep 2002 23:22

My point exactly, the formula is bogus, it is also bogus in regards to small arms ammunition.
If 70 grains of IMR 4064 in a 7.92x57 case behind a 197 gr. fmj is too much then 85 grains should be just right.

Logan Hartke
Member
Posts: 1226
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 18:30
Location: Illinois, USA

Post by Logan Hartke » 17 Sep 2002 23:24

b_c_ries wrote:My point exactly, the formula is bogus, it is also bogus in regards to small arms ammunition.

No, I'm saying I agree with the formula, read my post again.

Logan Hartke

b_c_ries
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 27 Mar 2002 04:25
Location: California USA

Post by b_c_ries » 18 Sep 2002 03:40

oops
If 70 grains of IMR 4064 in a 7.92x57 case behind a 197 gr. fmj is too much then 85 grains should be just right.

User avatar
Wolfkin
Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 25 May 2002 18:23
Location: Calgary,AB,Canada

Post by Wolfkin » 18 Sep 2002 06:35

Hey guys!

There is an account of this "Sherman ramming King Tiger" in The Panzers And The Battle Of Normandy by Georges Bernage page 142-143. The Sherman was commanded by a Lieutenant Gorman of the Irish Guards of the Guards Armoured Division. The King Tiger was of 1st Kompanie of sPzAbt 503. Since this event took place during Operation Goodwood, specifically July 18, the King Tiger can only have been a part of sPzAbt 503, since the King Tigers of 1/sSSPzAbt 101 did not see action until August and that was to the area just to the west of Paris anyway.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Post by Michael Kenny » 18 Sep 2002 19:29

Just to correct a mistake I made earlier:- I stated that the 14 TigerIIs issued to 503 in August (the 3rd kp.) were all Porsche turreted but in fact 2 were prodution turrets. I also said the 14 Tiger IIs issued to SS 101(1st kp.) in August were all production turrets when it would appear at least 2 were Porsche turreted. I did go from memory so I hope I can be forgiven for this lapse. The bottom line is only 503 with Porsche turreted Tiger IIs fought against the landings in Normandy, 12 in total from July 11th.onwards.

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Sep 2002 12:46

Another ramming incident?. Though it looks that way this is just a curious Sherman crew having a look around. The Tiger shown here is pretty well documented from its first showing in a photo on 7/6/44 on its way to the front. Then this film of it knocked out, later it is shown being driven by British Troops and finaly it was photographed back in England as a test load for a heavy tank trailer. It had a combat life of only 14 days!.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “WW2 in Western Europe & the Atlantic”