Goodwood

[Delta Tank]

The_Enigma,

Off the top of my head, there was the main attack with the 3 armored divisions, then there was an attack into Caen itself, and then there was a supporting attack. . The hell with it, I will try to find what I did 20 years ago in my filing cabinet.

Books to read:
Omar Bradley A Soldier's Story
Carlo D' Este Decisions in Normandy
Russell F. Weigley, Eisenhower's Lieutenants: The Campaign of France and Germany 1944-1945
Mounting the Threat July 1944, John J. T. Sweet (only read portions of this book)
Breakout and Pursuit, Blumenson

Now I am off to clean the chimney and the gutters and hopefully brew 5 gallons of beer this afternoon!!

Mike

[The_Enigma]

The_Enigma,

Off the top of my head, there was the main attack with the 3 armored divisions, then there was an attack into Caen itself, and then there was a supporting attack. . The hell with it, I will try to find what I did 20 years ago in my filing cabinet.

Now I am off to clean the chimney and the gutters and hopefully brew 5 gallons of beer this afternoon!!

Mike

That sounds like a quality afternoon - better then having to sit on the phone arguing with people and filling paperwork in

Yes, the main attack was by VIII Corps (Guards, 7th and 11th Armoured Divisions) heading for the objectives shown on that screenshot from googleearth above - from left to right, 11th Arm, 7th Arm and Guards.

I Corps, from what ive read so far as to have the 3rd Infantry Division reinforced with an indy armoured brigade and highland infantry to strike on the flank of VIII Corps.

On the other flank, Operation Atlantic would be launched by II Canadian Corps to clear Caen and take some other bits and bobs too (dont remember the villages atm), one division irrc was striking south from the Orne Bridgehead while the other divisions would strike across the Orne from the Carpiquet-Caen area.

Books to read:
Omar Bradley A Soldier's Story
Carlo D' Este Decisions in Normandy
Russell F. Weigley, Eisenhower's Lieutenants: The Campaign of France and Germany 1944-1945
Mounting the Threat July 1944, John J. T. Sweet (only read portions of this book)
Breakout and Pursuit, Blumenson

Cheers for the book recomendations, ive seen Bradleys book quoted quite a bit in other works ive read - from the quotes ive seen he seems to agree what the strategy etc was. Maybe its selective quoting but one gains the impression that he was on the ball and in the know unlike those back in England.

D'Este i detest although since ive am two weeks late with taking it back to the libaray i still have time to nose through it and see what he says about Cobra and to a lesser extent his critism (as am sure there will probably be no positives in there) about Goodwood.

Only heard of that third one and never seen the others, ill try and have a butchers at them.

Edit: On top of that i still have an entire Sandhurst documatry to watch, am off next week and i plan to get to grips with that then.

[Ranke]

Delta Tank and Enigma,

I highly recommend Terry Copp's two books on the Canadians at Normandy and after - titles escape me at the moment - although not everyone agrees with his arguments.

[JonS]

is "Fields of Fire" one of them?

[Delta Tank]

JonS.,

I looked it up "Fields of Fire" by Terry Copp is the book. I have not read it and do not own it.


Fields of Fire: The Canadians in Normandy
by Terry Copp - History - 2003 - 344 pages
The Joanne Goodman Lectures Fields of Fire offers a stunning reversal of accepted military history.
Limited preview - About this book - Add to my library - More editions

Mike

[Delta Tank]

To all,

I was very happy reading the two books I started on the American Civil War and now I have been pushed back into Operation Goodwood (or would that be pushed forward) I could not find my files on Operation Goodwood, but I have not given up hope of finding them either. However I have started to re-read and read about Goodwood again. So in time I will be posting something and the discussion will be launched. But to start the flames rolling, I guess Monty might of fanned the flames of this battle by his comments before and after the battle. There were aspects of the plan that were extremely difficult and yet they were done. IIRC getting three armor divisions into position over a very constricted area, lifting all the mines and clearing of obstacles while under enemy observation, some really good work.

Oh well back to work!

Mike

[The_Enigma]

JonS.,

I looked it up "Fields of Fire" by Terry Copp is the book. I have not read it and do not own it.


Fields of Fire: The Canadians in Normandy
by Terry Copp - History - 2003 - 344 pages
The Joanne Goodman Lectures Fields of Fire offers a stunning reversal of accepted military history.
Limited preview - About this book - Add to my library - More editions

Mike

The reviews for the book all seem very good, although one wonders how much cover and relevence it has for Goodwood?

[JonS]

Cdns were involved on the right flank of GOODWOOD.

[The_Enigma]

Well thats Operation Atlantic isnt it? Did I Corps thrust have a seperate codename or is that also part of Goodwood proper i.e. VIII Corps thrust?

[sallyg]

is "Fields of Fire" one of them?

and Cinderella Army.

[Delta Tank]

The Enigma,

The_Enigma wrote in reference to the Canadian participation in the overall Goodwood operation:Well thats Operation Atlantic isnt it? Did I Corps thrust have a seperate codename or is that also part of Goodwood proper i.e. VIII Corps thrust?

As I start doing my little research here, I am not going to split hairs. there were supporting attacks on the flanks of the main attack (Goodwood). I doubt if those supporting attacks would of been made without the main attack. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but in my world they are all linked into the overall Goodwood operation/concept.

Mike

[The_Enigma]

Cobra and Goodwood were suppose to be part of the same overall plan however you would never see anyone call the former the latter
Although saying that, it seems everyone just lumps the two together and only books dealing speficically with the subject call them different.

[Delta Tank]

The_Enigma,

Just remember that the divisions conducting these attacks in VIIIth Corps may of given their operation a different name than Goodwood. What ever the higher HQ calls an operation does not mean that a lower formation will follow suit, in fact I would be amazed if anyone did. So with that thought in mind we will consider any formation acting under the concept of Goodwood part of Goodwood. Cobra under Goodwood, will lets do the research and see what comes out.

Mike

[JonS]

Cobra under Goodwood, will lets do the research and see what comes out.

Since AFAIK no-one, ever, anywhere, has claimed that I'd be surprised if much of anything came out of it.

[Delta Tank]

JonS,

I didn't recall them being connected in the sense mentioned, but hey I forget things so I did not want to commit until I read some on the battle again. I finished "Mounting the Threat, July 1944" by John J.T. Sweet. Not a bad book, looking for my military maps of the area and plot the units and their objectives, just to get the feel for the operation again. I drove over the battlefield many years ago but did not have the time to really look at it in depth, but I got a fee for the terrain, very subtle that ridge, not a really large ridge, but if you are on top of it you are one up for sure. The villages could only be place better for a defense if the Germans had built them!

Mike