Operation Wintergewitter

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
FORBIN Yves
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Posts: 24
Joined: 23 Aug 2017 10:57
Location: FRANCE

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Postby FORBIN Yves » 31 Aug 2017 16:44

marthus wrote:Hello
During the departure in the end of November, 1942 to join 57 PZK, 23 PZD had got back to Ssalsk (center of provisioning for the German troops operating in the Caucasus) 20 Pz IV with long canon, who were initially planned for 13 PZD. 17 and 23 PZD also got back tanks of 14 PZK (14, 24 PZD and 29 DIM) who were then in the repair shops of eétaient in repair of Kotelnikovo

I am French and I do not master well the Englishman, but I hope to be all the same understandable


Mais oui très bien, merci :)

FORBIN Yves
Location: FRANCE


Very interesting infos i understand why she have a very decent number of Panzer, you or someone else think number for 17th Pz i have mentionned * are good she come from GAC had sure the 28/06/42, 71 Pz
http://www.niehorster.org/011_germany/4 ... z-rgt.html

* 17. Panzer-Division : 4 Pz. II, 13 Pz. III K, 22 Pz. III L, 7 Pz. IV K, 9 Pz. IV L, 0 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 55 Panzer

marthus
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Joined: 20 Feb 2010 15:33

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Postby marthus » 02 Sep 2017 19:08

17 PZD : 18/11/1942 ( Thomas L Jentz) = 9Pz II, 30Pz kz, 18Pz kz, 3Pz Bef

17 PZD : 18/12/1942 ( KTB 4th PZA-GA Don) = 20 Pz III L, 10 Pz III k, 10 Pz IV L, 4 Pz IV K, 3 Pz Bef

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Mr.No one
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Location: Denmark

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Postby Mr.No one » 02 Sep 2017 22:46

FORBIN Yves wrote:
Mr.No one wrote:
FORBIN Yves wrote:
Mr.No one wrote:Correlation of Operational Tanks at the Outset of Operation Wintergewitter

German Forces, LVII. Panzer-Korps

11th December 1942

6. Panzer-Division: 19 Pz. II, 29 Pz. III K, 63 Pz. III L, 23 Pz. IV L, 4 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 138

23. Panzer-Division: 13 Pz. II, 18 Pz. III K, 26 Pz. III L, 12 Pz. IV K, 26 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 97

Total Einsatzbereiten Panzern = 235

All the best,
Sean


Nice stuff but i have a doubt i have 2 number of tanks for 17th and 23th Panzer-Division

17. Panzer-Division : 4 Pz. II, 13 Pz. III K, 22 Pz. III L, 7 Pz. IV K, 9 Pz. IV L, 0 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 55

23. Panzer-Division: 5 Pz. II, 9 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. III L, 9 Pz. IV K, 21 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 64
or 11 Pz. II, 30 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. IV , 3 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 62

And also for the 11th Pz arrive before Wintergewitter for Chir River battles to rfont 07/12 i have with total 75 Panzer if one have more please.

Thank you :)


Do you doubt the veracity of the number of operational tanks of 6. and 23. Panzer-Division on 11th December that I provided, or what are you in doubt about?

It all depends on which date you are looking at and from which headquarter your information stems from.

Cheers,
Sean

No but i have see others number and thinking after Caucasus she did don't have such number of tanks rather about a Bat ~ 60 tanks, so you confirm 97.

I have see a time a II/Lehr Bat with ~30 tanks take part to this Operation ?

Pz IV L for long gun ofc


Hi FORBIN Yves,

Yes, I confirm that 23. Panzer-Division reported to have 97 Einsatzbereite Panzer on 11th December 1942 :)

Attached to LVII. Panzer-Korps was Pionier-Bataillon (mot.) "Lehr" 1, so no tanks.

I would also like to update you all that, as mentioned at the start of this thread, I did a major project on Operation Wintergewitter. I am now in the process of converting my project into a book for publication and in is contact with a brilliant publisher to make this happen. At the moment, further research is also being carried out in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg.

Cheers,
Sean
"History Is Written By The Victors..."
Why On Earth Do We Then Say "The Eastern Front" ?????

charles.sumpter
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Posts: 33
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 06:54
Location: California, USA

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Postby charles.sumpter » 05 Sep 2017 06:49

That sounds great Sean!! I would love to get a copy. Please let us know the publication details.
Thank you,
Charles

FORBIN Yves
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Posts: 24
Joined: 23 Aug 2017 10:57
Location: FRANCE

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Postby FORBIN Yves » 13 Sep 2017 20:26

marthus wrote:17 PZD : 18/11/1942 ( Thomas L Jentz) = 9Pz II, 30Pz kz, 18Pz kz, 3Pz Bef

17 PZD : 18/12/1942 ( KTB 4th PZA-GA Don) = 20 Pz III L, 10 Pz III k, 10 Pz IV L, 4 Pz IV K, 3 Pz Bef


Yes but operationnal number of Panzer how many for total ? as you know for 23 Pz, 97 and 6th Pz, 139 Panzer arrived end november with 159 full .

charles.sumpter
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Posts: 33
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 06:54
Location: California, USA

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Postby charles.sumpter » 16 Sep 2017 01:05

I am specifically looking for the strength of the grenadier regiments of the 6. Panzer Division, by battalion if possible. I will take any format I can; eg: %, off/nco/mann, total, even the "strong" through "burned out" system. And while I'm at it: lmg, mortar, AT and Inf gun if I may. The date in particular would be the strength on the morning of 19.12.1942. Thank you in advance.


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