German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
BartekPL
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Re: German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Post by BartekPL » 04 Aug 2019 21:44

According to Kazimierz Kaczmarek's "Polacy na polach Brandenburgii", between 16th April and 6th May (and probably including the next few days), Polish 1st Army inflicted on Germans losses as below:
1)8500 KIA and WIA,
2)5118 POWs (including at least 1 general - Generalmajor der Reserve Werner Mummert became a POW of 1 pal (Polish 1st Light Artillery Regiment) on 3rd May 1945),
3)21 tanks and 13 SPGs destroyed,
4)198 guns destroyed,
5)102 mortars destroyed,
6)56 planes shoot down by ground troops and AAA,
7)232 cars and trucks destroyed,
8)8 SPGs captured,
9)85 guns captured,
10)1015 mortars captured,
11)1 plane and a lot of other equipment captured,

These numbers, however, likely don't include losses claimed as inflicted by Polish 1st "Tadeusz Kościuszko" "Warsaw" Infantry Division during fights within Berlin (30.04.-02.05.1945), some of the most important numbers below:
1) ~1000 KIA,
2) ~2500 POWs,
3)3 tanks and SPGs destroyed,
4)15 SPGs and 6 tanks captured,

According to Kazimierz Kaczmarek's "Druga Armia Wojska Polskiego", during the Prague operation, Polish 2nd Army captured 3086 German officers and soldiers, however, as other publications and books about units of Polish 2nd Army mention, there is no document with total number of German POWs taken after the operation's end, from documents of few units it would appear that the number of those Germans who became POWs of Polish 2nd Army after the Prague operation was greater than during the operation itself.

Best regards
Bartłomiej

Art
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Re: German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Post by Art » 08 Aug 2019 08:28


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Yuri
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Re: German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Post by Yuri » 08 Aug 2019 12:07

Art wrote:
10 Oct 2016 21:26
As a related topic the number of prisoners taken from 1 to 8 May 1945. The sources, unless indicated previously, are war diaries or daily situation reports from respective fronts:
Leningrad Front - 330
3 Belorussian Front - 732
2 Belorussian Front - 55 526
1 Belorussian Front - at least 137 000
1 Ukrainian Front - aprox. 96 500
4 Ukrainian Front - 14 911
2 Ukrainian Front - 1727
3 Ukrainian Front - 3865
All fronts - about 310 000. Data given in these documents should be considered as preliminary and approximate but in any case the total is less than a half of the number from Krivosheev's book (634 960). I believe that such a huge difference can only be explained by some sort of mistake or probably by the fact that original documents used by Krivosheev and coauthors included a count of a large number of prisoners accepted after the capitulation started.
Perhaps the problem in accounting wounded, which were in stationary hospitals. The problem of accounting for the wounded met me in the study of Korsun-Shevchenko operation. The headquarters of 4th guards army reported that among the prisoners did not take into account the wounded, which General Stimmerman left in Shenderovka together with German doctors and nurses in the care of the red army (about 3000 people). 17.02.1944 the Soviet information Bureau reported about 11 000 prisoners. For 18-22.02.1944 was produced still about 4,000+ of captured. Today, the official figure 18,000 prisoners, which is obtained 11 000 + 3000 +4000.

If on the reports from troops wounded, treated in inpatient hospitals, are not taken into account, and Krivosheev took them into account, then this may explain the difference. According to OKW's documents, the number of wounded is 650,000, of which 300,000 in territory of the occupied Red Army is a realistic figure. I have not investigated this problem, but I remember reading a document that says that if a wounded person in the hospital can move independently, then he will be given certificates to move to his place of residence. You should check: indicated in doneseniya troops as prisoners wounded in stationary hospitals

BartekPL
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Re: German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Post by BartekPL » 08 Aug 2019 13:08

Art wrote:
08 Aug 2019 08:28
Numbers reported by the 1st Polish Army's staff:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=152131911
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=152131977
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=152131978
So 200+614+4314 = 5118 POWs, including two generals
You have a little mistake there, 200+614+4314 = 5128. However, both - yours and mine data are correct though. One of the documents mentions 604 instead of 614 so in the end it is still 5118. I can't lie that the mention of two generals is very interesting. Polish side only claimed the capture of Generalmajor der Reserve Werner Mummert. There is no mention of another one. There are a lot of memories of Polish soldiers who fought within Berlin and some mention capture of high ranked officers, among them 2 or 3 generals, but these claims found no confirmation, no documents mention them as well. Do Soviet documents say which general was captured by which unit? Maybe this would help estimate whether this second general was actually taken into captivity or it is a typo/false claim.

Best regards
Bartłomiej

BartekPL
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Re: German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Post by BartekPL » 10 Aug 2019 14:44

About Polish 2nd Army in April-May 1945 POW claims:

According to "8 Dywizja Piechoty" by Stanisław Rzepski, Polish 8th "Dresden" "Bartosz Głowacki" Infantry Division captured 3700 enemy soldiers and officers between 16th April and 11th May 1945 (the source of this data is a special report of the division's commander, sent to the chief of 2.AWP's staff, from 12th May 1945).

According to "Dziewiąta Drezdeńska" by Edmund Ginalski and Eugeniusz Wysokiński, Polish 9th "Dresden" Infantry Division captured 1068 enemy soldiers and officers between 16th April and 11th May 1945, however, between 12th and 21st May 1945, division captured additional 2719 enemy soldiers and officers (the source of this data is a summary of the losses inflicted on the enemy sent to the headquarters of the Polish Army in July 1945).

According to "Dziesiąta Sudecka" by Władysław Wydra, Polish 10th "Sudetes" Infantry Division captured 120 enemy soldiers and officers between 16th April and 12th May 1945 (the source of this data is a summary of the losses inflicted on the enemy between 16th April and 12th May 1945). However, in case of this division I am not sure about the overall number of POWs, in this division the number was low, but I'll search in books on the division's regiments to find out whether it was that low.

No data on how many POWs took Polish 5th "Saxonian" Infantry Division and 7th "Lusatian" Infantry Division. Polish 1st "Dresden" Armored Corps reported capturing 400 enemy soldiers and officers between 16th April and 3rd May 1945.

Best regards
Bartłomiej

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Yuri
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Re: German capitulation on the Eastern Front

Post by Yuri » 13 Aug 2019 10:26

Circumstances Surrounding the Apprehension of Field Marchal Schoerner.
45-06-01_PoW_Scheorner(1980).jpg
on russian
45-06-01 PoW_Schoerner(r1980).jpg
In the documents of the staff of 4th guards army there is an act of transfer of Field Marshal Schoerner from Americans to Russian (the original). From Americans the act was signed by two officers - the senior from them - Lieutenant Colonel. There is also a Protocol of identification of Field Marshal Scherner, the Protocol of preliminary interrogation, the Protocol of interrogation and handwritten testimony of this Field Marshal. Long ago (more than 15 years) I rewrote these documents. If these documents are not yet on the website of TSAMO, I will print the texts.
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