2 Operation Seydlitz

[Benoit Douville]

There was the Operation Seydlitz of 6-8 September 1944 and the Landing on the Dalmatian island of Hvar in Croatia. Who was the German Commander for that operation?

The other Seydlitz Operation took place in 1942 when the Soviets 22th, 29th and 39th Armies became encircled, to eliminate this threat to the rear of the German 9th Army, the Germans started Operation Seydlitz by the 2nd of July. This Operation resulted in the complete elimination of the trapped Russian forces on the 12th of July. Again, who was the German commander for that Operation?

Is it the only Operation who was named twice during World War II?

[JC]

Benoit,

The 1942 operation behind the 9. Armee (Führer - G.d.Pz.Truppe von Vietinghoff) was conducted mainly by a special Kavallerie Brigade made up of the AA from all divisions of the 9. Armee and commanded by Oberst Karl Friedrich von der Meden, who was commander of Schützen-Rgt. 1/1. Pz.Div.. The brigade was under XXIII. AK( KG - G.d.Inf. Albrecht Schubert).

BR.............JC

[Art]

Several divisions were engaged incuding Panzer divisions. See the schemes here:
http://rshew-42.narod.ru/pic/z2.gif
http://rshew-42.narod.ru/pic/z3.gif
On the Soviet side the losses were suffered mainly by the 39th Army and 11th Cavalry Corps. The whole affair resembled the defeat of the Vlasov's Army and the losses were even higher, but despite of this fact the encirclement of the 2nd Shock is far better known.

[Jan-Hendrik]

Hi Art, nice link

Jan-Hendrik

[Kelvin]

Hi, Art, did the whole of 39th Army (252,256,262,357,373,381 Rifle Divisions and 21st Guard Rifle Division) were encircled and annhilated in this battle ? May you have some data on that ? Thank

[Kelvin]

I found that German Heeresgruppe Mitte launched a series of offensive against Soviet 29th, 33rd and 39th Armies started from April 1942.

First was destruction of 33rd Army in April 1942, Commander Efremov was killed.

Second was defeat of Belov Group ( 1st Guard Cavlary Group and 4th Airborne corps) in Operation Hannover in May-June 1942

And finally Operation Seydlitz : destruction of Maslennikov 's 39th Army in July 1942.

So in the summer of 1942, German whole front was active at all.

[CNE503]

Several divisions were engaged incuding Panzer divisions. See the schemes here:
http://rshew-42.narod.ru/pic/z2.gif
http://rshew-42.narod.ru/pic/z3.gif
On the Soviet side the losses were suffered mainly by the 39th Army and 11th Cavalry Corps. The whole affair resembled the defeat of the Vlasov's Army and the losses were even higher, but despite of this fact the encirclement of the 2nd Shock is far better known.

Hello Art,

Very nice pics indeed. Have you a better quality for the second one? Several numbers are hardly readable, it's a pity because this is precisely what I'm looking for!

Thanks for sharing!
Cheers,

CNE503

[CNE503]

Hi, Art, did the whole of 39th Army (252,256,262,357,373,381 Rifle Divisions and 21st Guard Rifle Division) were encircled and annhilated in this battle ? May you have some data on that ? Thank

As far as I know, the whole 39th Army as well as the entire 11th Cavalry Corps were encircled and destroyed. Sources say that 39th Army was eight-divisions strong, not seven, and 11th Cavalry Corps was four-divisions strong, not three, but I couldn't track back the whole units.
Several units from 22nd and 41st Armies were trapped as well:
- 22th Army: 355th Rifle Division, parts from 185th and 380th Rifle Divisions;
- 41st Army: 17th Guards Rifle Division, 135th Rifle Division, 21st Tank Brigade.

Anyone that can help to clear this up is very welcome!
Cheers,

CNE503

[Kelvin]

Hi, Art, did the whole of 39th Army (252,256,262,357,373,381 Rifle Divisions and 21st Guard Rifle Division) were encircled and annhilated in this battle ? May you have some data on that ? Thank

As far as I know, the whole 39th Army as well as the entire 11th Cavalry Corps were encircled and destroyed. Sources say that 39th Army was eight-divisions strong, not seven, and 11th Cavalry Corps was four-divisions strong, not three, but I couldn't track back the whole units.
Several units from 22nd and 41st Armies were trapped as well:
- 22th Army: 355th Rifle Division, parts from 185th and 380th Rifle Divisions;
- 41st Army: 17th Guards Rifle Division, 135th Rifle Division, 21st Tank Brigade.

Anyone that can help to clear this up is very welcome!
Cheers,

CNE503

Hi, CNE503, I miss this post for a long time, thank again.

For 11th Cavalry Corps, I only find 18th, 24th and 82nd Cavalry divisions, who is fourth ? Thank

And who was the eighth division of 39th Army trapped in pocket and any battle name given to this operation do you know that ? thank

[Art]

Probably, I've already posted it but anyway, POWs captured by the HG Mitte 1-20.7.42:
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/ru/ ... ect/zoom/6
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/ru/ ... ect/zoom/6
About 44-45,000 POWs taken by the AOK 9

[Kelvin]

Hi, Art, thank again. Did Soviet 24th Cavalry division being evacuated successfully ? I see only 24th Cavalry division remained at battlefield while 18th and 82nd Cavalry divisions were disbanded after Operation Seydlitz.

[Art]

The staff of the Kalinin Front reported 1848 men in the 24 Cavalry division on 20 July and 1525 on 1 August 1942. So it remained a battle-worthy unit albeit weakened.

[Art]

Long story short: by the start of July 1942 the 24 Calvary Division (the bulk of it) was under control of the 41 Army instead of the 11 Cav.Corps. Then the division was torn to pieces with all three regiments operating separately. Divisional HQ, 56 Cavalry Regiment and the replacement party meant for the 18 Cavalry regiment broke out through the road Beliy-Nelodovo on the night 8/9 July and also took with them about 3000 men from other units and about 350 wounded from a medical battalion of the 171 Rifle Division. Nothing was heard about other elements. The division was reformed later in August with 18 and 70 Cavalry Regiments reconstructed from replacements.

[Mori]

The other Seydlitz Operation took place in 1942 when the Soviets 22th, 29th and 39th Armies became encircled, to eliminate this threat to the rear of the German 9th Army, the Germans started Operation Seydlitz by the 2nd of July. This Operation resulted in the complete elimination of the trapped Russian forces on the 12th of July. Again, who was the German commander for that Operation?

Heinrich von Vietinghoff was the army commander during this July 1942 operation Seydlitz. He was acting commander of 9th army while Walter Model was recovering from a severe wound. Vietinghoff planed the operation and executed it. It was an army level operations, involving several corps.

[Kelvin]

Long story short: by the start of July 1942 the 24 Calvary Division (the bulk of it) was under control of the 41 Army instead of the 11 Cav.Corps. Then the division was torn to pieces with all three regiments operating separately. Divisional HQ, 56 Cavalry Regiment and the replacement party meant for the 18 Cavalry regiment broke out through the road Beliy-Nelodovo on the night 8/9 July and also took with them about 3000 men from other units and about 350 wounded from a medical battalion of the 171 Rifle Division. Nothing was heard about other elements. The division was reformed later in August with 18 and 70 Cavalry Regiments reconstructed from replacements.

Hi, Art, thank for your detailed answer and very helpful.