Compare the defeat of Napoleon and the Nazis by the Russian?

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bruce
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Compare the defeat of Napoleon and the Nazis by the Russian?

Post by bruce » 28 Oct 2002 18:00

As a matter of fact didnt hirlet set june 22 for the beginning of barbarossa as a tribute to the napoleon's conquest of russia? ironicly hitler also failed like his ancestor. but why?
1. first they both were dumb LOL :mrgreen:
2. they both were caught of guard by the russian winter
3. and finally they did not consider the man to man ratio... (russians had both more men power and at the end more equipment)

can any1 else help me out here...any1 else can draw any parallels?
something i missed?

thank u

Karl da Kraut
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Post by Karl da Kraut » 28 Oct 2002 18:41

I'd say you can't dismiss Napoleon or Hitler simply as "dumb". If they had been, neither of them would have conquered power. I'd prefer to call them megalomaniacs. Though, surprisingly, both were able to live up to their megalomania for a long time.

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Schwalbe
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Post by Schwalbe » 28 Oct 2002 20:57

Hmm this might be my personal oppinion, but didn´t the Germans almost succeed in the east? Stalin threatened to draw Soviet out of the war in 1942. Not for a good reason I think?

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 28 Oct 2002 21:02

Schwalbe wrote:Hmm this might be my personal oppinion, but didn´t the Germans almost succeed in the east? Stalin threatened to draw Soviet out of the war in 1942. Not for a good reason I think?
when did this happen? napoleon also almost seceded - almost does not cut it though

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Schwalbe
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Post by Schwalbe » 28 Oct 2002 21:09

Double post :oops:
Last edited by Schwalbe on 28 Oct 2002 21:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Schwalbe
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Post by Schwalbe » 28 Oct 2002 21:10

Well Stalin demanded a second front, later called the raid of Dieppe.If this wasn´t tried by the allies, russia wouldn´t fight anymore. I personally think the reason the germans didn´t win was because they denied von Manstein to continue the offensive against Moskow. The change of plans to go towards the Kaukasus was ulitmatly the doom of the Germans advance.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 28 Oct 2002 21:20

Schwalbe wrote:Well Stalin demanded a second front, later called the raid of Dieppe.If this wasn´t tried by the allies, russia wouldn´t fight anymore. I personally think the reason the germans didn´t win was because they denied von Manstein to continue the offensive against Moskow. The change of plans to go towards the Kaukasus was ulitmatly the doom of the Germans advance.
where di thsi all come from???/ and Manstein never was on Centarl front. Hi was fisrt at Leningrad then at Sebatsopol, then again at Leningrad and then he AG DOn under his command.

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Schwalbe
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Post by Schwalbe » 28 Oct 2002 21:24

I´ve read it, don´t remember the book though. According to the books von Mainstein was in charge of the assault against Moskow.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 28 Oct 2002 21:30

Schwalbe wrote:I´ve read it, don´t remember the book though. According to the books von Mainstein was in charge of the assault against Moskow.
well consult his memories then:)

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Schwalbe
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Post by Schwalbe » 28 Oct 2002 21:41

If you don´t belive me, then don´t.......

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 28 Oct 2002 21:42

Napoleon, unlike Hitler, won his own victories. He also spread the ideas of the French Revolution throughout Europe. Btw, do you know that he was the one who set the rule that the odd numbers should be on one side of the street and the even ones onthe other or that his Code of Laws is at the basis of many modern European ones? We owe much to Napoleon. Placing him in the same cathegory with Hitler is way off.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 28 Oct 2002 21:42

Schwalbe wrote:If you don´t belive me, then don´t.......
it is not that I don't believ - I know he was not there :lol:

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HaEn
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nap / hit

Post by HaEn » 28 Oct 2002 23:08

Both were Corporals who had military experience, but got in over their head. Both did not want to listen to experienced Generals with more academic insight. Both were stubborn as hell, and both thought that they were Gods gift to the world :roll: Both did some good and a lot of bad.
Both underestimated the Russian secret weapon: 'the winter". HN

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Re: nap / hit

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 28 Oct 2002 23:50

HaEn wrote: Both underestimated the Russian secret weapon: 'the winter". HN
yea the secerecy was absolutely horrible 8)

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 28 Oct 2002 23:51

Napoleon couldn't possible had known what would happen - there were no history to warn him.

Christian

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