serafimovitch battle (july-august 1942)

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cpa95
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#61

Post by cpa95 » 03 Sep 2006, 14:19

Aymeric wrote:Thanks to both ! the losses of the 578 IR concerned only the Serafimovitch battle ?
Yes!

oricchi
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#62

Post by oricchi » 13 Sep 2006, 19:43

OK,
my time to make a questions.
I know quite well which anti-tank guns were allowable to Italians.
But what about the 578th tank regiment?
Were they armed with the newer 75mm gun or with the 50mm?

One of the Italian sources say that at some point the attack against Serafimovich was supported by German tanks (most likely I think from 22nd panzer division).
Can anyone confirm it? What kind of tanks were arming the 22nd division at this stage of the war. Old ones (chtzech made may be) or new onels Long barrel 50mm or even the recently availble long barrel 75mm? any clue?

thanks
Ottavio


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scarecrow
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#63

Post by scarecrow » 13 Sep 2006, 20:33


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Alex Yeliseenko
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#64

Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 17 Nov 2006, 21:20

oricchi wrote:
Does you source mention anywhere "soldat kurke". Apparently Russians gave this name to Bersaglieri because of their hat (decorated with capercaillie feathers)

Ottavio
...in one source I read that they had been called "hen-soldiers" (soldat-kurka) not only for their plumes on hats, but for their especial love towards poultry. Soldiers seized all birds from local inhabitants (DON area - summer 1942)"

Bob_Mackenzie
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Re: serafimovitch battle (july-august 1942)

#65

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 03 Jan 2009, 12:48

From:

http://digilander.libero.it/lacorsainfi ... esesto.htm

Google translation:
With the hot summer coming clashes patrols increasingly close and face the enemy was celebrated the "June 18 - Feast of the body" to Orlov. Not far away stood the little cemetery, the first for the 18 who died already suffered. Ginnica the festival, with special rancio after winter restrictions were welcome guest Captain Romulus Guercio then in the service of MS On June 27 the clashes at 331 battle became real. The captain was the Cheats true hero of the day but the company was not to be less for the 17 silver medals awarded.
The 6th was preparing to shift the front line when the order came to move forward. At 3 of the July 12 all Celere was in motion. In the 3rd head. In a joint attack Italian German 13-17 bersaglieri surprised the Russians so as to exclaim to a war correspondent of "These are real devils bersaglieri"

The action continued with the conquest of the basin of Mining Krasnij-Lutc ended 24th The regiment would need the rest but its planned online presence was needed, also needed to de-mining of areas where the Russians were claiming. In seven days had lost 74 men. Two other cemeteries were set up to Ivanovka and Bokovo Antrazit. (anthracite). The few days of calm that followed were used to rischierare on the Celere Don employed by the German body XVIII. From July 25-29 is the bersaglieri led all'ansa of Don (440 km), controlled by a Russian head of bridge, on the western shore, which ranged from Satonskij-Serafimovic a Bobrovski-Baskovskij through woods sloping down to the river. Serafimovic could not be made without cutting the head and tail. The BALKE or bolke which run parallel to the river make it invisible from the rear of any shares moving south of the northern enemy.

The area assigned to the 6th unlike the other was more rocky and it was for the time being controlled by a German regiment shriveled Baskovskij. The meeting of the two commanders bersaglieri came to this result, "as usual it will be up to us." The twelve days of July 30 the 3rd, who moved to the loop, unleashed the Russian reaction was to speak from the south 24 wagons 16 T26 and T34 which enveloped the Germans first and then the 6th. The unpleasant surprise caused several losses, but on both sides. We needed to see now because the Russians were able, through the head of the bridge, to supply wagons of the other departments. In the early morning of August 2 attack on the shares Bobrovski and Baskovskij that were reached. It was the forest, sloping to the river, through which the reinforcements arrived, and also served as a central observatory for firing or artillery. The clashes of this view try desperately these days more and more.


The sixth battalion share for the 210 (rear) was involved in his motion (to share 120) in furious clashes with its companies Barnabè 3rd (bronze) and 2nd Bruno Carloni (son of Gen. Mario) who had the worst (of award 'Oro). Also fell T. Col. Rivoire (arg.) Leoni Bernardino (gold) and others that had the silver and bronze. The soldiers killed were buried in the cemetery of Vers IV (verchne) Fomichinskij. The Germans, after lengthy discussions, which also concerned the physical availability of the site which for months had not received the return, agreed to create a joint group for the mopping up of the forest. Four battalions, two Germans and two of the 6th, (XIII and XIX), moved from the extremities and exhausting days engaged in a manhunt that only riandando to the events of the Americans in the forests of Vietnam is able to understand. On 8 August the clashes were still ongoing with heavy losses on both sides. The German command decided to stop the action. Ten were killed on Michelini (gold) .... And the Colonel of the 3rd Amint Carretto already wounded earlier in the hospital from the field hospital.

The reports of war Italian triumphantly announced the acquisition of targets, but that the removal of the head of the bridge had not been reached. It attributed the loss to the Russians for an entire armored brigade and 1,500 prisoners. The Btg XIII. by the afternoon of August 7 was moved along the Don, in the area where Nish Malveevskij after 10 days will be replaced by Sforzesca. On August 9 was scheduled to replace longed online department, for the 6th leaving was scheduled for 13th Rumors said that the Russians had traghettato an entire armored division, and consequences, to cross the Don Serafimovich undisturbed. And the aerial?.

The counter made by other companies were successful thanks to the company's control, scriptural chefs etc, armed only personal weapons, which the ten. Grimaldi had brought in reinforcement of the 3rd. From July 29 the regiment had lost more than 800 people of which 200 died. The company was losing control here more than 50% of men. The Russians were once again stopped. The last 14 days the 6th left to face the provisions of retrovia. 6th conclusions could not be more rischierato. On August 21, to stop the collapse of Sforzesca, the Division Celere was nevertheless fall in line immediately. The deal gave a Nish Malveevskij and the area Baskovskij could be in trouble. The fight is turned violent, with the aim of investing Jagodnij Russian. The Pasubio and the body of a horse regiments Savoia e Novara had supported the attack sull'ali West while on the direction of attack from the south on 3 and 6 bersaglieri had formed a group with XX and XXV of the 3rd and VI and XIII of the 6th and a second reserve battalions with the remaining funds, including companies motorcycle. In the early morning of August 23, the fight grew quickly share 208-211-218-224 and 232.

For six times the Russians tried to break through, surrendering all of the evening of August 24. The day after the Celere passed under the German command in the area of contact which had failed to create. The last bastion of q. 208 should not be abandoned at any cost. On the morning of 24 from that part of the 6th Bersaglieri had witnessed the 'Last Charge "of the Savoy Colonel Bettoni. After a few days back division Celere employed by the Italian industry. The fight lasted until the September 9 but the Russians did significant progress. It would be impossible here to do a list of the fallen and actions made by bersaglieri value that led to the granting of the first gold medal of the Regiment.

The gold was awarded to the memory S. Ten. Gucci doctor already Lino bronze cross and war, the cap. maj. Aldo Chiarini, the S. Ten. Ferruccio Petracchi already Germanica Iron Cross, the bers. Fifth Ascione already Cross of War to save the chapter Aurelio Barnabè. The 6th had lost Jagodnij about 7oo of which 220 men among the dead and missing, which brought the total number of soldiers killed or missing and 520 injured in 1200!. The 6th, past due for recovery, was back on line 20 of the month to replace the 3rd. During the night on October 12 was sent to a temporary! Replacement of the 79th Rgt. Turin in the area of Nis. Kalininskij. There remained throughout the month. On October 22, Colonel Umberto Salvatores after 22 months of command transferred the reins to Colonel Mario Carloni father Bruno fell in the summer. The battles of the 6th were not finished. Approached the second Russian winter, the decisive one.
Cheers

Bob

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Re: serafimovitch battle (july-august 1942)

#66

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 03 Jan 2009, 18:56

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/italianisti/message/6248
The following is a translation from Italyanskie Voyska na Sovetsko-
Germanskom Fronte, by Safranov. This passage covers the Battle of
Serafimovich.


"As the most mobile Italian formation [the Celere Division] was
attached to the German 6th Army's 17th Korps, which was advancing on
the right of the German 17th Army.

From 25-29 July, the Celere traveled about 400km, from a region 50km
southeast of Voroshilovgrad, to the approaches to Serafimovich, which
remained in the hands of Russian troops on the west bank of the Don
River.

The town of Serafimovich was in a narrow sector of the Don River,
which extended south of the town for about 25km, and included the
settlements of Belyavskaya, Bobrovskiy, and Baskovskiy. Units of the
Soviet 21st Army defended the bridgehead. The general strength of the
defending force was no more than 3,000 men in the beginning.

On orders of General Paulus, the German 578th Regiment was attached
to the the Celere Division; up to that time, the 578th Regiment had
tried to conquer the bridgehead on its own. Joint Italo-German
offensive actions began on 30 July. The 578th, operating on the left
flank, captured Serafimovich in the course of a sharp fighting on 3
August. But the Celere Division could not carry out its mission--the
positions of Soviet troops in the forested area of the settlements of
Bobrovskiy--Baskovskiy were insurmountable for it. The Italian
offensive actions continued here over the course of a half-month,
from 30 July to 14 August, and the division lost 1/3 of its
personnel, but could still not completely conquer the territory in
the bridgehead."

Bob_Mackenzie
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Re: serafimovitch battle (july-august 1942)

#67

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 03 Jan 2009, 18:59

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/italianisti/message/6249
On the map I have from an Italian text, which would probably be much
better to go by, the map only indicates movements of Axis forces.

Schizzo 25 shows the German 578th Regiment starting operations from the
settlement of Popov on 31st July, and moving toward Satonskiy the same
day.

On 31 July, the maps places the 3rd Bersaglieri Regiment approx. 5km
south of Popov, on a road running northeast into Serafimovich; at day's
end, the maps places the 20th and 25th Battalions on the southern
outskirts of Serafimovich.

On 31 July, the maps places the 6th Bersaglieri Regiment about 10 km
south of Popov, deployed east from Verkh Forminsky to a crossroads of
dirt or light surface roads about 4km east. From the crossroads, the
6th Battalion moves north to point 210.1, about 3-km directly north of
the crossroads; the 13th Battalion moves east from the same crossroads,
to point 176.7, again about 5km; the 19th Battalion moves out of Verkh
Forminsky towards point 207.9, just south of the crossroads. All this
on 31 July.

On 1 August, the Germans and Italians advance into Serafimovich, from
left to right: the 578th, the 20th Battalion, the 17th Battalion.

The 25th Bers. Battalion advances toward Belyayeskiy, while the
Motorcycle Battalion advances east from Point 210.1 toward the same
town.

The Battalions of the 6th Bers. Regt. begin movement toward Bobroskiy.
The 6th Bers. BN moves directly east toward the village from PT. 210.1,
for a distance of about 3km, while the 13th Bers. BN moves from the
vicinity of PT 176.7 in two directions: some elements move toward
Bobrovskiy, the others toward Baskovskiy, stopping near Point 121.8

AUGUST 2-3:

The map indicates movement of the German 578th Regiment, 18th Bers. BN,
and 3rd Motorcycle Coy eastward from Serafimovich through the forested
area in the loop of the Don River; the 20th Bers. BN moves south toward
Belyayevskiy.

AUGUST 2:

The map shows the 25th Bers. BN converging on Bobrovskiy, together with
the 13th and 19th BNs of the 6th Bers. Regiment on 2 August. The 19th
BN is moving from Point 122.7, a farmroad crossroads southwest of
Bobrovskiy.

Map indicates movement of the 6th Bers. BN and another 3rd Motorcycle
Coy southeast towards Baskovskiy, stopping outside the settlement at
the end of 2 August.

Italian text on the pages mentions deployment of an AA section
(75/39mm) near Point 210.1

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