Tank Battle at Studzianki

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Benoit Douville
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Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Benoit Douville » 09 Sep 2006 23:00

That Battle happened on 10-16 August 1944 between the Polish Army of the Eastern Front fought against the Germans, I know that the Germans lost 20 tanks in that Battle, anymore info and detail account of the Battle would be really appreciated. What Division was involved?

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Post by cpa95 » 10 Sep 2006 17:17

Hi,

to get closer to the problem, its important, that in July and August 1944 the Polish troops fought at the bridgeheads on the Western Bank of the Vistula River.
I am searching for german units.

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Post by PzGren » 10 Sep 2006 19:17

That city is now called (since 1969) Studzianki-Pancerne. It is situated up the Vistula, south of Warsaw. Polsh unit involved was 1. Brygady Pancernej im. Bohaterów Westerplatte. According to my sources it fought with 2 Panzer Divisions and a Grenadier division. I think one of the panzer divisions is Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 "Hermann Göring" and the Grenadier division is 562. Grenadier-Division. But of course I can be wrong.

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by BartekPL » 08 Apr 2019 16:38

Basing on my own research - Polish books on this battle, books on Polish 1st Armored Brigade as well as German official tank losses etc., I would say, that Polish 1 BPanc. inflicted casualties as below:

1)19. Panzer-Division - 3-5 Pz Kpfw V, a few (around 5) Pz Kpfw IV,

2)Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring - 2 Jagdpanzer IV, no more than 3-5 Pz Kpfw IV, 2 Marder II of attached Panzer-Grenadier-Ersatz-Bataillon ,,Krampnitz'',

(losses of both units come from German data, 19. Panzer-Division suffered higher tank losses, however, I aimed to only verify Polish unit's claims)

Besides tanks and SPGs Polish unit also claimed destroying:

1)9 APCs,
2)17 75/50/37 mm guns ,
3)9 mortars,
4)13 HMGs,
5)31 LMGs,
6)16 ,,AT-rifles" (probably Panzerschrecks),
7)7 trucks,
8)2 field kitchens,
9)1 tractor (probably Sd Kfz 8 or something similar),

Brigade claimed killing 1850 soldiers and officers, I'd say that the good estimation would be half of this - 925 enemy soldiers or that the number 1850 stands for both - KIA and WIA.

1 BPanc. also claimed capturing:

1)2 cars,
2)2 motorcycles,
3)2 standards/banners (probably some small banners from staff cars etc.),
4)36 MGs,
5)5 ,,AT-rifles" (probably Panzerschrecks),
6)74 rifles,
7)4 75 mm guns and 1 45 mm gun,
8)10 flamethrowers,

On the other hand Polish unit lost 68 tankers and fusiliers KIA, 207 tankers and fusiliers WIA. In case of tank losses - 18 tanks ended up classified as destroyed and 10 as damaged, brigade was using T-34-76s and T-70Ms. This was actually the Brigade's first battle, which makes this victory look even better.

Polish T-34-76s on Vistula crossing.
w drodze na przyczolek magnuszewski.jpg
T-34-76 ,,1000" belonging to the brigade's commander - Brigade general Mierzycan.
13934649_1657039334613678_1096671339219621_n.jpg
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Art
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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Art » 09 Apr 2019 08:24

How would you separate Polish claims from Soviet claims in the same area? As far as I can see, Soviet 36 Guards Heavy Tank Regiment lost 4 IS-122 tanks and 1087 Self-Propelled Regiment - 3 SU-76 during the same time frame.

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by BartekPL » 09 Apr 2019 18:34

Art, I compared German data, general Chuikov's report (which includes fewer amount of German stuff destroyed by Polish unit, than claimed by the Poles, and which I see as the most accurate when it comes to German tank losses inflicted by the Poles - work of Chuikov's commission) on Polish 1st Armored Brigade's fights during battle of Studzianki and obviously Polish documents. German units suffered higher casualties during fights against combined Soviet-Polish troops, my estimation and data focuses only on Polish unit's achievements. The only German data on their tanks/SPGs from this battle which I lack are the possible losses sustained by Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1260 before 12th and after 15th August, 1944.

To answer one of questions above - main German units which fought against Polish 1st Armored Brigade (full name - 1 Warszawska Brygada Pancerna im. Bohaterow Westerplatte, in Russian 1-я танковая Варшавская Краснознаменная ордена Креста Грюнвальда бригада им. Героев Вестеплятте, in English Polish 1st Armoured Brigade of the defenders of Westerplatte awarded with the Order of the Red Banner and the Order of the Cross of Grunwald) and Soviet Guard units were:

1)Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 "Hermann Göring",

2)19. Panzer-Division,

3)45. Grenadier-Division,

4)Grenadier-Brigade 1132,



There is a mistake in my previous reply - instead of Panzer-Grenadier-Ersatz-Bataillon ,,Krampnitz'' there should be Panzer-Grenadier-Lehr-Bataillon "Krampnitz''.


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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Art » 10 Apr 2019 09:42

Ok, but you have Polish and Soviet units intermixed. How would you tell losses inflicted by Poles from losses inflicted by Soviets? That seems a little problematic to me.

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by BartekPL » 10 Apr 2019 10:00

General Chuikov's report - his commission was tasked with finding out by whom (Poles or Soviets) was destroyed each tank/SPG. At least that's what I have read in books.

One of T-34-76s of Polish 2nd Tank Regiment during the battle of Studzianki.
13872890_1653629204954691_3987855705760361415_n.jpg


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Bartłomiej
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Life Standarda
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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Life Standarda » 11 Apr 2019 06:25

Hello BarketPL, the identification of German tank "killer" by 8GA seems interesting. I am curious if the German panzer causulaties you metioned above are "total-losses"?

Besides,just as art points out, Soviet armoured troops engaged near Studzianki also claim tank kills during the operation. Some also achived impressive scores, for example, 36th Guard Heavy Tank Regiment claims 19 enemy AFV during 9-10 August.As I know,HG suffers no total-loss between this period, I thought maybe it's 19 PzD which suffered these losses. Do you have any information about the German losses between 9-10?

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by BartekPL » 11 Apr 2019 17:58

Life Standarda wrote:
11 Apr 2019 06:25
Hello BarketPL, the identification of German tank "killer" by 8GA seems interesting. I am curious if the German panzer causulaties you metioned above are "total-losses"?
Yes, mentioned tanks and SPGs were destroyed or heavily damaged and eventually captured by Soviet-Polish troops.

1) Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 "Hermann Göring" losses suffered between 28th July and 15th August:

A) 18 Pz Kpfw IV (destroyed or damaged and captured by Soviet-Polish troops),

B) 11 Jagdpanzer IV (destroyed or damaged and captured by Soviet-Polish troops),

C) 3.397 soldiers KIA, WIA and MIA,


From the moment Polish Brigade entered fights, the Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 "Hermann Göring" lost 5 Pz Kpfw IV, 2 Jagdpanzer IV and 2 Marders of attached Panzer-Grenadier-Lehr-Bataillon "Krampnitz'''.

It should be noted that losses presented above include wide time span, so in case of the Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 "Hermann Göring" they also include losses suffered during fights within Warsaw against Polish resistance and outside of this city against Soviet troops.

2) 19. Panzer-Division losses suffered between 5th and 20th August,

A) 11 Pz Kpfw IV (destroyed or damaged and captured by Soviet-Polish troops),

B) 9 Pz Kpfw V (destroyed or damaged and captured by Soviet-Polish troops),

C) 12 officers, 34 NCOs i 150 privates KIA,

D) 53 officers, 246 NCOs i 826 privates WIA,

E) 26 NCOs i 300 privates MIA,


I forgot earlier to add to main German troops during this battle 17. Infanterie-Division.

Life Standarda wrote:
11 Apr 2019 06:25
36th Guard Heavy Tank Regiment claims 19 enemy AFV during 9-10 August
It wouldn't be surprising if they simply just overclaimed. It is nothing new, in April of 1945, commander of the Fallschirm-Panzer-Regiment "Hermann Göring" - Oberstleutnant Karl Roßmann claimed destroying 43 Polish T-34-85s, SU/ISU and capturing 12 undamaged tanks, including 3-4 IS-2s in the place where were present as many as 13 T-34-85s. Only one IS-2 of 5 pczc was... damaged around this time, additionally - in different place.


Main Soviet-Polish troops during this battle:

1) 4th Guards Rifle Corps ~ 16.000 soldiers:

A) 35th Guards Rifle Division,

B) 47th Guards Rifle Division,

C) 57th Guards Rifle Division,

D) 40th Heavy Tanks Regiment with 50% of its tanks being serviceable,

E) 1087 Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment with 40-50% of its SPGs being serviceable,

2) 1 Brygada Pancerna im. Bohaterów Westerplatte (2215 soldiers and tankers, 86 T-34-76 and T-70M tanks),


T-34-76 ,,137" of zavod Nr.112 ,,Красное Сормово" late 1942 model production. 3rd Tank Company of Polish 1st Tank Regiment, battle of Studzianki, August 1944.
137.png
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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Life Standarda » 12 Apr 2019 05:36

I am curious is the daily loss by 1st Polish Armoured Brigade available?HG division,(maybe includes the reinforced Group Baier from 19 pzd), claimed 21 enemy AFV on 11 August, and another 9 on next day. 13th August seems to be a hard day for HG, with 3 PzIV total-loss and only 2 T34 claimed. I am interested how accurated these claims are.

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Art » 12 Apr 2019 07:08

BartekPL wrote:
11 Apr 2019 17:58
D) 40th Heavy Tanks Regiment with 50% of its tanks being serviceable,
It wasn't present there. You probably mean 36 Guards Heavy Tank Regiment (12 IS-122 operational on 8 August 44)
1087 SP Regiment had 17 SU-76 operational on 8.8.44

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Art » 12 Apr 2019 07:11

Life Standarda wrote:
12 Apr 2019 05:36
I am curious is the daily loss by 1st Polish Armoured Brigade available?
Cumulative losses (write-offs) as reported by 8 Guards Army HQ's armor section:
11 August - 1 T-34
12 August - 8 T-34
14 August - 14 T-34
16 August - 18 T-34.
I'm not sure that those reported figures were fully synchronized with actual losses.

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Life Standarda » 12 Apr 2019 08:17

Art wrote:
12 Apr 2019 07:11
Life Standarda wrote:
12 Apr 2019 05:36
I am curious is the daily loss by 1st Polish Armoured Brigade available?
Cumulative losses (write-offs) as reported by 8 Guards Army HQ's armor section:
11 August - 1 T-34
12 August - 8 T-34
14 August - 14 T-34
16 August - 18 T-34.
I'm not sure that those reported figures were fully synchronized with actual losses.
Yes,the report from 8GA make me confused. Since those reports are completed on 18.00, it is difficult to figure out what happened exactly on each day(0.00-24.00).

Besides, I found it is interesting about status record of irrecoverable loss Soviet tanks. As I see in some cases, a tank suffered damaged beyond repair(such as burnt out) will first be recorded as "burnt" and later "irrecoverable loss'', and it still appears on the status list for several days before the finally "write-offs". That means there is a time difference between the fatal damage occurrence and the "write-offs" action for Soviet tanks. Is that a comman thing?

Regards.

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Re: Tank Battle at Studzianki

Post by Life Standarda » 12 Apr 2019 08:40

Art wrote:
12 Apr 2019 07:08
BartekPL wrote:
11 Apr 2019 17:58
D) 40th Heavy Tanks Regiment with 50% of its tanks being serviceable,
It wasn't present there. You probably mean 36 Guards Heavy Tank Regiment (12 IS-122 operational on 8 August 44)
1087 SP Regiment had 17 SU-76 operational on 8.8.44
It seems this JS unit inflicted heavy losses on the attack HG troops on 9th August. It engaged near Studzianki-Dabrowki-Grabnowola that day, block the advance route of left group of HG (reinforced 1st PGR) division, claiming 12 enemy AFV knocked. Besides, 35 Gurad Rifle division engaged in similar area also claim 8 AFV burnt and 2 damaged on 19.30.

Engagment between 8-9th August seems to be bloody for HG panzer units. It suffered 4 PzIV and 2 PzJgIV as total-loss;further more, the reinforced group "Baier" from 19pzd also sufferd 1 PzIV loss on 9th August. Such high cost confirms 36GTR and 35 GRD's claims more or less.

Regards.

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