Casualties at Budapest

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
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Yuri
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#46

Post by Yuri » 28 Sep 2006, 01:22

Äèðåêòèâà Íà÷àëüíèêà Ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà Êðàñíîé Àðìèè êîìàíäóþùåìó âîéñêàìè 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà î ðàçðåøåíèè âðåìåííîìó íàöèîíàëüíîìó ïðàâèòåëüñòâó Âåíãðèè ñôîðìèðîâàòü äîáðîâîëü÷åñêóþ ïåõîòíóþ äèâèçèþ.

Ìîñêâà
28 äåêàáðÿ 1944 ãîäà

1. Ñîîáùèòå ìèíèñòðó îáîðîíû Âðåìåííîãî íàöèîíàëüíîãî ïðàâèòåëüñòâà Âåíãðèè, ÷òî ôîðìèðîâàíèå äîáðîâîëü÷åñêîé âåíãåðñêîé ïåõîòíîé äèâèçèè â ðàéîíå Äåáåðåöåí ðàçðåøàåòñÿ.
2. Ôîðìèðîâàíèå äèâèçèè äîëæíî áûòü ïðîèçâåäåíî ðàñïîðÿæåíèåì Âðåìåííîãî íàöèîíàëüíîãî ïðàâèòåëüñòâà Âåíãðèè ïî øòàòàì âåíãåðñêîé àðìèè.
3. Íà óêîìïëåêòîâàíèè äèâèçèè èñïîëüçîâàòü îôèöåðîâ, ñåðæàíòîâ è ðÿäîâûõ – äîáðîâîëüöåâ èç âîåííîïëåííûõ âåíãðîâ. Èç íèõ 25% ìîæåò áûòü âûäåëåíî çà ñ÷¸ò ñîäåðæàùèõñÿ â òûëîâûõ ëàãåðÿõ è 75% – çà ñ÷¸ò ñîäåðæàùèõñÿ âî ôðîíòîâûõ ëàãåðÿõ 2-ãî, 3-ãî è 4-ãî Óêðàèíñêèõ ôðîíòîâ.
Ïðåäëîæèòü ìèíèñòðó îáîðîíû çàÿâêó íà âîåííîïëåííûõ ïðåäñòàâèòü ÷åðåç øòàá Âàøåãî ôðîíòà.
4. Îáåñïå÷åíèå äèâèçèè âîîðóæåíèåì, áîåïðèïàñàìè ðàçðåøàåòñÿ ïðîèçâåñòè çà ñ÷¸ò òðîôååâ 2-ãî, 3-ãî è 4-ãî Óêðàèíñêèõ ôðîíòîâ, äëÿ ÷åãî ïðåäñòàâèòü çàÿâêó ÷åðåç øòàá ôðîíòà ÃÀÓ ÊÀ (Ãëàâíîå àðòèëëåðèéñêîå óïðàâëåíèå Êðàñíîé Àðìèè).
5. Îáåñïå÷åíèå äèâèçèè ëîøàäüìè, àâòîòðàíñïîðòîì è âñåìè âèäàìè èìóùåñòâà ðàçðåøàåòñÿ ïðîèçâåñòè çà ñ÷¸ò òðîôååâ.
Íà íåäîñòàþùåå ïðåäëîæèòå ïðåäñòàâèòü çàÿâêó ÷åðåç øòàá Âàøåãî ôðîíòà â ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèå ãëàâíûå óïðàâëåíèÿ ÍÊÎ (Íàðîäíûé êîìèññàðèàò îáîðîíû).

À. Àíòîíîâ
ÖÀÌÎ ÐÔ.
ôîíä 240, îïèñü 2769, äåëî 136, ëèñò 338. Çàâåðåííàÿ êîïèÿ
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. òîì 14-3(2). Ñ. 346
The instruction of the Chief of the Joint Staff of Red Army to the commander armies of 2-nd Ukrainian front about the sanction to the time national government of Hungary to generate a voluntary infantry division.

Moscow
On December, 28, 1944

1. Inform Minister of Defence of the Time National Government of Hungary, that formation of a voluntary Hungarian infantry division in area Deberetsen is authorized.
2. Formation of a division should be made by the order of the Time National Government of Hungary on staffs of the Hungarian army.
3. On completion of a division to use officers, sergeants and private soldiers – volunteers from POWs Hungarians. From them of 25 % can be allocated due to contained in rear camps and 75 % – due to in front camps 2-nd, 3-rd and 4-th Ukrainian fronts.
To offer Minister of Defence the application on POWs to present through a staff of your front.
4. Maintenance of a division with arms, an ammunition is authorized to be made due to trophies of 2-nd, 3-rd and 4-th Ukrainian fronts for what to present the application through a staff of front GAU ÊÀ (the Main Artillery Management of Red Army).
5. Maintenance of a division ëîøàäüìè, motor transport and all kinds of property authorize to make due to trophies.
On missing suggest to present the application through a staff of your front to corresponding central administrative boards NKO (the National Commissariat of Defense).

A.Antonov
CAMD RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
fund 240, inventory 2769, file 136, sheet 338. The certified copy

RA. GPW. vol 14-3(2). S. 346

Jan-Hendrik
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#47

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 28 Sep 2006, 06:27

It is not necessary imaginations.
The red Army was not at war with civilians.
Armies of other countries were engaged in this "noble" business.
Please mark sarcasm if you use it :wink:

Jan-Hendrik


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Yuri
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#48

Post by Yuri » 28 Sep 2006, 08:13

Äîíåñåíèå íà÷àëüíèêà øòàáà 7-ãî àðìåéñêîãî êîðïóñà Âåíãåðñêîé àðìèè
êîìàíäóþùåìó âîéñêàìè 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà
î âíóòðèïîëèòè÷åñêîì ïîëîæåíèè â Âåíãðèè.

21 íîÿáðÿ 1944 ãîäà
Îò èìåíè ìîèõ òîâàðèùåé áåðó íà ñåáÿ ñìåëîñòü äîëîæèòü Âàøåìó Ñèÿòåëüñòâó ñëåäóþùåå:
1. Ìû äîáðîâîëüíî ïðèìêíóëè ê ðóññêèì âîéñêàì. Ìû ýòî ñäåëàëè íå èç áîÿçíè çà íàøó æèçíü, íå èç áîÿçíè áîðüáû, à èç ëþáâè ê íàøåìó íàðîäó, êîòîðûé áåññîâåñòíûå ôàøèñòñêèå ðóêîâîäèòåëè âåäóò ê ãèáåëè.
Åùå â ïåðèîä, êîãäà âåíãåðñêèé íàðîä îáëàäàë çàêîííûì ïðàâèòåëüñòâîì è ñâîèì ðåãåíòîì Õîðòè, áîëüøèíñòâó âåíãåðñêîé íàöèè áûëî ÿñíî, ÷òî Âåíãðèÿ óæå ñðàæàåòñÿ çà ÷óæèå èíòåðåñû.
Ãåðìàíñêàÿ èìïåðèÿ ñäåëàëà Âåíãðèþ ñâîèì âàññàëîì è ñóìåëà – ñ ïîìîùüþ òåððîðèñòè÷åñêîé ôàøèñòñêîé êëèêè – óäåðæàòü Âåíãðèþ â ðóêàõ äî íàñòîÿùåãî âðåìåíè.
Åù¸ â ïåðèîä íåìåöêèõ ïîáåä áîëüøèíñòâî âåíãåðñêîãî íàðîäà ïîíÿëî, ÷òî Âåíãðèÿ íàõîäèòñÿ íà íåïðàâèëüíîì ïóòè.  ñòðàíå ðàçðàñòàëèñü çíà÷èòåëüíûå ãðóïïû ëèö, êîòîðûå ïûòàëèñü îòäåëèòü Âåíãðèþ îò Ãåðìàíèè è âûâåñòè å¸ èç-ïîä íåìåöêîãî èãà.
Äâèæåíèå îñâîáîæäåíèå íàñòîëüêî âûðîñëî ïðè ïðàâèòåëüñòâå Êàëëàè, ÷òî Ãåðìàíèÿ âûíóæäåíà áûëà äëÿ ïðåäóïðåæäåíèÿ âûõîäà Âåíãðèè èõ âîéíû îêêóïèðîâàòü å¸ 19 ìàðòà 1944 ãîäà.
Ñ ýòîãî âðåìåíè âåíãåðñêèé íàðîä ñ÷èòàåò ñîþç ñ Ãåðìàíèåé ðàñòîðãíóòûì.
….
Ïîëêîâíèê ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà
íà÷àëüíèê øòàáà 7 ÀÊ (âåíãðîâ) Õàö
ÖÀÌÎ ÐÔ.
ôîíä 240, îïèñü 2761, äåëî 208, ëèñòû 67-70.
Ïåðåâîä ñ íåìåöêîãî. Çàâåðåííàÿ êîïèÿ.
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. òîì 14-3(2). Ñ.328-330

Ïîëíûé òåêñò äîíåñåíèÿ ïîëêîâíèêà ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà íà÷àëüíèêà øòàáà 7 ÀÊ (âåíãðîâ) Õàöà â ñëåäóþùèé ðàç.
Êðîìå òîãî, èìåþòñÿ òàêæå òåêñòû äîêóìåíòîâ:
- äîíåñåíèå íà÷àëüíèêà ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà âîîðóæåííûõ ñèë Âåíãðèè ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêà ¸ð¸øà;
- äîêëàäíàÿ çàïèñêà íà÷àëüíèêà ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà âîîðóæåííûõ ñèë Âåíãðèè ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêà ¸ð¸øà;
- çàïèñü ðàçãîâîðà ñ áàðîíîì Ýäý Àòöåëü, ïåðåøåäøèì íà ñòîðîíó Êðàñíîé Àðìèè;
- ïðîòîêîë äîïðîñà ôåëüäôåáåëÿ îòäåëüíîé ãîðíîñòðåëêîâîé ðîòû 2-é âåíãåðñêîé àðìèè Ëóêà÷à Ïîòàðà Ëàäèñëàâà, ïåðåøåäøåãî íà ñòîðîíó Êðàñíîé Àðìèè ïî ïðèêàçó ãðàôà Áåòëåí Èøòâàí.
- ïîêàçàíèÿ àäúþòàíòà Õîðòè ãåíåðàë-ìàéîðà Ãåðëîöè, ñäàâøåãîñÿ â ïëåí 5 äåêàáðÿ 1944 ãîäà;
- ìíîãèå äðóãèå ÷ðåçâû÷àéíî èíòåðåñíûå äîêóìåíòû.
The report of the chief of a staff of 7-th army ccorps of the Hungarian army
to the commander armies of 2-nd Ukrainian front
about internal political position in Hungary.

On November, 21, 1944
On behalf of my comrades I take on myself boldness to report to Your Excellency on the following:
1. We have voluntary adjoined Russian armies. We have made it not of fear for our life, not from fear of struggle, and from love to our people which unscrupulous fascist heads conduct to destruction.
During the period when Hungarian people had the lawful government and the regent Horti, it was clear to the majority of the Hungarian nation, that Hungary already battles for another's interests.
The German empire has made Hungary the vassal and has managed – with the help of a terrorist fascist clique – to keep Hungary in hands till now.
During German victories the majority of Hungarian people has understood, that Hungary is on a wrong way. In the country significant groups of persons which tried to separate Hungary from Germany expanded and to remove it from under a German yoke.
Movement clearing has so grown at government Kallai, that Germany has been compelled for the prevention of an output of Hungary of their war to occupy her on March, 19, 1944.
From now on Hungarian people counts the union with Germany terminated.
….
The colonel of the Joint Staff
the chief of a staff 7 AK (Hungarians) Khac

ÖÀÌÎ THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
fund 240, inventory 2761, file 208, sheets 67-70.
Translation from German. The certified copy.
RA. GPW. vol 14-3 (2). S. 328-330

The full text of the report of the colonel of the Joint Staff of the chief of a staff 7 ÀÊ (Hungarians) Khac next time.

Besides there are also texts of documents:
- the report of the chief of the Joint Staff of armed forces of Hungary of general - colonel Veryosh;
- the information of the chief of the Joint Staff of armed forces of Hungary of general - colonel Veryosh;
- record of conversation with baron Ede Attsel, has passed on the side of Red Army;
- the report of interrogation corporal separate mountainRifle company of 2-nd Hungarian army Lukach Potar Ladislav, has passed on the side of Red Army under the order column Betlen Ishtvan.
- indications of aide-de-camp Horti of general - major Gerlotsi given in a captivity on December, 5, 1944;
- many other extremely interesting documents.
Last edited by Yuri on 28 Sep 2006, 08:28, edited 2 times in total.

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Yuri
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#49

Post by Yuri » 28 Sep 2006, 08:17

Ïèñüìî ïðåìüåð-ìèíèñòðà Âðåìåííîãî Íàöèîíàëüíîãî Ïðàâèòåëüñòâà Âåíãðèè ïîëèòè÷åñêîìó ñîâåòíèêó ïðè óïîëíîìî÷åííîì ïðàâèòåëüñòâà ÑÑÑÐ â Âåíãðèè è ÷ëåíó Âîåííîãî ñîâåòà 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà ñ ñîîáùåíèåì îá îáúÿâëåíèè Âåíãðèåé âîéíû Ãåðìàíèè.

Äåáðåöåí
28 äåêàáðÿ 1944 ãîäà
Ãîñïîäèíó Ã. Ì. Ïóøêèíó
Ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêó È. Ç. Ñóñàéêîâó

Âðåìåííîå Íàöèîíàëüíîå Ïðàâèòåëüñòâî èìååò ÷åñòü ñîîáùèòü ïðàâèòåëüñòâó Ñîâåòñêîãî Ñîþçà, ÷òî Âðåìåííîå íàöèîíàëüíîå ïðàâèòåëüñòâî íà îñíîâå ïîëó÷åííûõ ïîëíîìî÷èé îò Âðåìåííîãî íàöèîíàëüíîãî ñîáðàíèÿ îáúÿâèëî âîéíó Ãåðìàíèè. Ïðè ñåì ïðèëàãàåòñÿ ðåøåíèå Ñîâåòà Ìèíèñòðîâ.
Âðåìåííîå íàöèîíàëüíîå ïðàâèòåëüñòâî îäíîâðåìåííî ñ ýòèì ïðîñèò ïðàâèòåëüñòâî Ñîâåòñêîãî Ñîþçà ñîáëàãîâîëèòü ñîîáùèòü ïðàâèòåëüñòâàì Âåëèêîáðèòàíèè è Ñîåäèíåííûõ Øòàòîâ î òîì, ÷òî îáúÿâëåíèå âîéíû Âåíãðèåé ÿâëÿåòñÿ óæå ñâåðøèâøèìñÿ ôàêòîì.
ÌÈÊËÎØ

Ïðèëîæåíèå
Îáúÿâëåíèå âîéíû Ãåðìàíèè.
Âîççâàíèå Âðåìåííîãî íàöèîíàëüíîãî ïðàâèòåëüñòâà Âåíãðèè ê âåíãåðñêîìó íàðîäó

Âåíãåðñêèé íàðîä ñ ñàìîãî íà÷àëà îñóæäàë ïðåñòóïíóþ âîéíó, êîòîðóþ ïðàâèòåëüñòâî Áàðäîøè, íå ñïðîñèâ ìíåíèå ïàðëàìåíòà, íåçàêîííî íà÷àëî ïðîòèâ Ñîâåòñêîãî Ñîþçà è äðóãèõ äåìîêðàòè÷åñêèõ ñòðàí. Ýòà âîéíà, óíåñøàÿ ñîòíè òûñÿ÷ âåíãåðñêèõ ñîëäàò, íàõîäèòñÿ â âîïèþùåì ïðîòèâîðå÷èè ñ èíòåðåñàìè âåíãåðñêîãî íàðîäà è åãî òðàäèöèÿìè è ñëóæèò èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî èíòåðåñàì íåìöåâ.  äîâåðøåíèå âñåãî 19 ìàðòà 1944 ãîäà Ãåðìàíèÿ âåðîëîìíî íàïàëà íà Âåíãðèþ è îêêóïèðîâàëà å¸. Âåðîëîìíîå íàïàäåíèå íà íàøó Ðîäèíó Ãåðìàíèè çàâåðøèëîñü òåì, ÷òî 15 îêòÿáðÿ 1944 ãîäà ïóò¸ì âîîðóæåííîãî ïóò÷à îíà ïîñòàâèëà ó âëàñòè íåíàâèñòíîãî âñåé íàöèè ïðåäàòåëÿ ðîäèíû Ñàëàøè, ÷òîáû òàêèì îáðàçîì âîñïðåïÿòñòâîâàòü çàêëþ÷åíèþ ïåðåìèðèÿ ìåæäó Âåíãðèåé è äåìîêðàòè÷åñêèìè äåðæàâàìè.
….
[ïîëíûé òåêñò âîççâàíèÿ áóäåò äàí ñëåäóþùèé ðàç]

Ýòî ðåøåíèå áûëî åäèíîãëàñíî ïðèíÿòî íà çàñåäàíèè Ñîâåòà ìèíèñòðîâ 28 äåêàáðÿ 1944 ãîäà

Âðåìåííîå íàöèîíàëüíîå ïðàâèòåëüñòâî
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. òîì 14-3(2). Ñ. 345
The letter of the prime minister of the Time National Government of Hungary to the political adviser at the representative of the government of the USSR in Hungary and to a member of the Military council of 2-nd Ukrainian front with the message on the announcement Hungary wars of Germany.

Debrecen
On December, 28, 1944
To mister G.M.Pushkin
To general - colonel I.Z.Susajkov

The time National Government has honour to inform the government of Soviet Union, that the Time national government on the basis of the received powers from Time national assembly has declared war of Germany. The decision of Council of Ministers is herewith applied.
The time national government simultaneously with it asks the government of Soviet Union to deign to inform the governments of the Great Britain and the United States that declaration of war by Hungary is already come to pass fact.

Miklosh

The appendix
Declaration of war of Germany.
The appeal of the Time national government of Hungary to Hungarian people

Hungarian people from the very beginning condemned criminal war which government Bardoshi, not having asked opinion of parliament, illegally started against Soviet Union and other democratic countries. This war, óíåñøàÿ hundred thousand Hungarian soldiers, is in a glaring contradiction with interests of Hungarian people and his traditions and serves exclusively to interests of Germans. In completion of all on March, 19, 1944 Germany has perfidiously attacked Hungary and occupied her. Treacherous attack on our Native land of Germany has come to the end with that on October, 15, 1944 by the armed putsch she has put at authority hated all nation of the traitor of native land Ñàëàøè thus to prevent the conclusion of an armistice between Hungary and democratic powers.
….
[the full text of the appeal will be given following time]

This decision was unanimously accepted at session of Council of Ministers on December, 28, 1944

The Time National Government
RA. GPW, vol. 14-3(2), S. 345

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Yuri
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#50

Post by Yuri » 28 Sep 2006, 08:41

Ðàñïîðÿæåíèå íà÷àëüíèêà øòàáà 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà
íà÷àëüíèêó îõðàíû òûëà ôðîíòà
î ñîäåéñòâèè êîìàíäîâàíèþ íîâîé âåíãåðñêîé àðìèè â ðàçìåùåíèè ôîðìèðóåìûõ èì âîèíñêèõ ÷àñòåé

11 ôåâðàëÿ 1945 ãîäà

Êîìàíäóþùèé ôðîíòîì ïðèêàçàë:
Äàòü óêàçàíèÿ êîìåíäàíòàì ãîðîäîâ Ñîëüíîê, Ìåçåòóð, Êàðöàã, Íüèðåäüõàçà, Íüèðáàòîð, Õàéäóáåñåðìåí, Õàéäóøàìøîí, Äåáðåöåí î ñîäåéñòâèè âåíãåðñêîìó êîìàíäîóíèþ â ðàçìåùåíèè â óêàçàííûõ ïóíêòàõ ôîðìèðóåìûõ âåíãåðñêèõ âîèíñêèõ ÷àñòåé.
Çàõàðîâ
ÖÀÌÎ ÐÔ.
ôîíä. 240, îïèñü, 2769, äåëî 272, ëèñò 131. Çàâåðåííàÿ êîïèÿ.
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. Òîì 14 – 3(2). Ñ. 368-369.
The order of the chief of a staff of 2-nd Ukrainian front
to the chief of protection of rear of front
about assistance to command of new Hungarian army in accommodation of military units formed by him

On February, 11, 1945

The commander front has ordered:
To instruct commandants of the cities of Szolnoks, Mezetur, Karcag, Nyiregyhaza, Nyirbator, Khajdubesemen, Khajdushamshon, Debrecen in assistance Hungarian êîìàíäîóíèþ in accommodation in the specified points of formed Hungarian military units.

Zakharov
CAMD RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
fund 240, inventory, 2769, file 272, a sheet 131. The certified copy.
RA. GPW. vol 14 – 3 (2), S. 368-369.

Michate
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#51

Post by Michate » 28 Sep 2006, 09:11

It is not necessary imaginations.
The red Army was not at war with civilians.
Armies of other countries were engaged in this "noble" business.
It is quite well known after capture of the city the Red Army rounded up many civilians in order to deliver the PoW numbers (cf. the works by Gosztonyi and Ungvary mentioned in this thread).

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Yuri
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#52

Post by Yuri » 28 Sep 2006, 13:13

Text Russian

Ðàññêàç áàðîíà Ýäý Àòöåëÿ î÷åíü áîëüøîé (îáúåì ýòîãî äîêóìåíòà ïÿòü ëèñòîâ ôîðìàòà A4 ìàøèíîïèñíîãî òåêñòà â îäèí èíòåðâàë)
ß âçÿë îòòóäà òî, ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ ëæè î Êðàñíîé Àðìèè, êîòîðóþ íà÷àëà ðàñïðîñòðàíÿòü ãåðìàíñêàÿ è âåíãåðñêàÿ, òî÷íåå ñàëàøèñòêàÿ, ïðîïàãàíäà åù¸ îñåíüþ 1944 ãîäà, è êîòîðóþ ïðîäîëæàþò ðàñïðîñòðàíÿòü äî ñåãî äíÿ.
Ñïðàâêà î ñîäåðæàíèè áåñåäû îôèöåðà ïîëèòîòäåëà 46-é àðìèè ñ äåëåãàòîì êîìèòåòà îñâîáîæäåíèÿ Âåíãðèè Ý. Àòöåëåì

27 íîÿáðÿ 1944 ãîäà

25 íîÿáðÿ ïåðåø¸ë ëèíèþ ôðîíòà ìëàäøèé ëåéòåíàíò áàðîí Àòöåëü Ýäý, ÿâëÿþùèéñÿ äåëåãàòîì Êîìèòåòà îñâîáîæäåíèÿ Âåíãðèè. Áàðîí Àòöåëü èìååò çàäà÷ó: ñâÿçàòüñÿ ñ êîìàíäîâàíèåì Êðàñíîé Àðìèè è íàõîäÿùèìñÿ â ÑÑÑÐ ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêîì ßíîøåì ¸ð¸øîì, à òàê æå âûñòóïèòü ïî ðàäèî ñ îáðàùåíèåì ê âåíãåðñêîìó íàðîäó è íàñåëåíèþ Áóäàïåøòà.
Áàðîí Àòöåëü Ýäý – ïî ïðîôåññèè èíæåíåð-àãðîíîì, îäèí èç àêòèâíûõ äåÿòåëåé òàê íàçûâàåìîé âåíãåðñêîé ïàðòèè â Òðàíñèëüâàíèè. Îí èìååò øèðîêèå çíàêîìñòâà â ðóêîâîäÿùèõ êðóãàõ âåíãåðñêîé àðìèè. Ïî ñåêðåòíîé äèðåêòèâå ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà Àòöåëü ïîäãîòàâëèâàë îòðÿäû âåíãåðñêèõ ïàðòèçàí â ñëó÷àå âîéíû Âåíãðèè ñ Ðóìûíèåé. Îòðÿäû ôîðìèðîâàëèñü ïîä âèäîì ïîäãîòîâêè ãîðíûõ ïðîâîäíèêîâ.
 ïîñëåäíåå âðåìÿ áàðîí Àòöåëü ñîñòîÿë ïðè øòàáå 2-é âåíãåðñêîé àðìèè äî àðåñòà êîìàíäóþùåãî àðìèåé ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêà ¸ð¸øà Ëàéîøà, áëèçêèì äðóãîì è ñîâåòíèêîì êîòîðîãî îí ÿâëÿåòñÿ.

 áåñåäå áàðîí Àòöåëü ñîîáùèë ñëåäóþùåå:
«ß ÿâëÿþñü áëèçêèì äðóãîì è ñîâåòíèêîì ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêà Ëàéîøà ¸ð¸øà è ÷åëîâåêîì, èìåþùèì îáøèðíûå çíàêîìñòâà â âîåííûõ êðóãàõ.
Êîãäà ðóññêàÿ àðìèÿ âñòóïèëà íà Áàëêàíû, ïîñëå êàïèòóëÿöèè Ðóìûíèè è ðàçðûâà Áîëãàðèè ñ Ãåðìàíèåé, äëÿ ¸ð¸øà Ëàéîøà è äëÿ ìåíÿ ñòàëî ÿñíî, ÷òî Âåíãðèÿ äîëæíà äîáèòüñÿ çàêëþ÷åíèÿ ïåðåìèðèÿ ñ Ðîññèåé, åñëè îíà íå æåëàåò ïðåâðàòèòüñÿ â àðåíó âîåííûõ äåéñòâèé. Ìû ïîíèìàåì, ÷òî íåìöû ïðèëîæàò âñå óñèëèÿ, ÷òîáû óäåðæàòü Âåíãðèþ íà ñâîåé ñòîðîíå, è öåíîé å¸ îïóñòîøåíèÿ è æåðòâ õîòü íà íåêîòîðîå âðåìÿ ïðèîñòàíîâèòü ïðîäâèæåíèå Êðàñíîé Àðìèè ê íåìåöêèì ãðàíèöàì.
22 ñåíòÿáðÿ ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèê ¸ð¸ø Ëàéîø ïîðó÷èë ìíå ïðîáðàòüñÿ â Ìîñêâó è óçíàòü, êàêîâû áóäóò óñëîâèÿ ïåðåìèðèÿ.


Èçâåñòíîå âëèÿíèå íà àðìèþ îêàçûâàåò íåìåöêàÿ è Ñàëàøè (ñàëàøèñòñêàÿ) ïðîïàãàíäà, êîòîðàÿ èç äíÿ â äåíü â ñàìûõ ÷åðíûõ êðàñêàõ îïèñûâàåò «çâåðñòâà ðóññêèõ â Âåíãðèè» Ïîä âëèÿíèå ýòîé ïðîïàãàíäû ïîïàäàþò ìíîãèå âèäíûå ãðàæäàíñêèå è âîåííûå äåÿòåëè.
ß íåäàâíî âèäåëñÿ ñî ñâîèì ñòàðûì çíàêîìûì êîìàíäèðîì äèâèçèè «Ñåíò-Ëàñëî» ïîëêîâíèêîì ãåíåðàëüíîãî øòàáà Çþäè Çîëòàíîì. Ðàçãîâîð çàø¸ë îá îáðàùåíèè ßíîøà ¸ð¸øà. ß îäîáðèë åãî îáðàùåíèå. Çþäè ñêàçàë: «ß ÷èòàë îáðàùåíèå ßíîøà ¸ð¸ø, íî åñëè îòäàäèìñÿ íà ìèëîñòü ðóññêèõ, Âåíãðèÿ áóäåò ïîðàáîùåíà. ß ÷òî ðóññêèå òâîðÿò â îêêóïèðîâàííûõ îáëàñòÿõ!».

Ïðè ýòîì ïîëêîâíèê ðàññêàçà ìíå, ÷òî îí ñëûøàë î òîì, ÷òî åãî ðîäñòâåííèêè íà îêêóïèðîâàííîé òåððèòîðèè ïîêîí÷èëè æèçíü ñàìîóáèéñòâîì, ÿêîáû, íå âûäåðæàâ èçäåâàòåëüñòâ ñî ñòîðîíû ðóññêèõ. Îá ýòîì åìó ñîîáùèëè çíàêîìûå. Êîãäà ÿ óñîìíèëñÿ â ýòîì è ñïðîñèë, êòî áûëè ýòè çíàêîìûå, Çþäè çàÿâèë, ÷òî âîîáùå åãî äîëã – àðåñòîâàòü ìåíÿ êàê ÷åëîâåêà, ñèìïàòèçèðóþùåãî âðàãó, íî ââèäó ñòàðîãî çíàêîìñòâà îí îòïóñêàåò ìåíÿ è íàäååòñÿ, ÷òî ÿ áóäó ïîîñòîðîæíåå.
Òîãäà ÿ îáðàòèëñÿ ê íà÷àëüíèêó øòàáà äèâèçèè ìàéîðó Ëîéòàøó. Òîò îêàçàëñÿ íå òàêèì çàêîðåíåëûì òèïîì, êàê Çþäè, è âûðàçèë ñî÷óâñòâèå ßíîøó ¸ð¸øó. Îí ñêàçàë ìíå êîíôèäåíöèàëüíî, ÷òî â ñëó÷àå, åñëè ñîçäàñòñÿ áëàãîïðèÿòíàÿ îáñòàíîâêà äëÿ ïåðåõîäà íà ñòîðîíó Êðàñíîé Àðìèè, îí óñòðîèò âñå çà ñïèíîé «ñòàðèêà» (òàê îí íàçâàë êîìàíäèðà äèâèçèè) ïðè ïîìîùè ïðåäàííûõ åìó îôèöåðîâ.

Õî÷ó ñêàçàòü åù¸ íåñêîëüêî ñëîâ î íåìåöêîé ïðîïàãàíäå (â ýòî ïîíÿòèå âõîäèò è ïðîïàãàíäà ïðàâèòåëüñòâà Ñàëàøè, èáî îíà òîæäåñòâåííà ñ íåìåöêîé). Ýòà ïðîïàãàíäà ÷ðåçâû÷àéíî àêòèâíà, ïðè÷¸ì å¸ äåëàåò óáåäèòåëüíîé òî, ÷òî îíà àðãóìåíòèðóåò ôàêòàìè, äàòàìè, öèôðàìè è ôàìèëèÿìè.
Íåäàâíî íàäåëàëî øóì èçâåùåíèå î òîì, ÷òî â Ñåãåäå çàêðûò óíèâåðñèòåò, à ñòóäåíòû âûâåçåíû â Ðîññèþ.
Î÷åíü ìíîãî ïèñàëè è ñîîáùàëè ïî ðàäèî «î çâåðñòâàõ ðóññêèõ â Íîäüñîëîíòî», ïåðåäàâàëèñü ðàññêàçû áåæåíöåâ îòòóäà, ñ ïåðå÷èñëåíèåì ôàìèëèé, î òîì, ÷òî ðóññêèå, âñòóïèâ â ãîðîä, èçíàñèëîâàëè ìíîãèõ âåíãåðñêèõ æåíùèí è äåâóøåê è 9 èç íèõ ïîêîí÷èëè æèçíü ñàìîóáèéñòâîì.

Ýòè ðàññêàçû «î çâåðñòâàõ â Íîäüñîëîíòî» áûëè äî òîãî ðàñïèñàíû îôèöèàëüíîé ïðîïàãàíäîé, ÷òî î íèõ è òåïåðü èä¸ò èíîãî ðàçãîâîðîâ â Áóäàïåøòå.
Áûëè îïóáëèêîâàíû ñîîáùåíèÿ î òîì, ÷òî ïðîôåññîð Ñåíò-Äüåðäü, èçâåñòíûé ó÷åíûé-âèòàìèíîëîã, ëàóðåàò Íîáåëåâñêîé ïðåìèè, áåæàë èç Ñåãåäà, èáî íå ìîã ñïîêîéíî ñîçåðöàòü áåçîáðàçèÿ, êîòîðûå òâîðèëè ðóññêèå.

ß ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî ëó÷øèì ñðåäñòâîì ðàçîáëà÷åíèÿ ôàøèñòñêîé ïðîïàãàíäû ÿâëÿåòñÿ îòâåòíàÿ ïðîïàãàíäà ðóññêèõ – ëèñòîâêè âûñòóïëåíèÿ ïî ðàäèî, òàê æå íàñûùåííàÿ ôàêòàìè, öèôðàìè, äàòàìè è ôàìèëèÿìè. Íàïðèìåð, î÷åíü óáåäèòåëüíî áûëî âûïóñòèòü ëèñòîâêó ñ ïèñüìîì ñòóäåíòîâ Ñåãåäñêîãî óíèâåðñèòåòà î òîì, ÷òî îíè íà÷àëè ó÷åáó â óíèâåðñèòåòå. Ýòó ëèñòîâêó íàäî áûëî áû â îãðîìíûõ êîëè÷åñòâàõ ñáðàñûâàòü íàä Áóäàïåøòîì è åù¸ íå çàíÿòîé ðóññêèìè ÷àñòüþ Âåíãðèè.
×òî êàñàåòñÿ Íîäüñîëîíòî, çäåñü áûëî áû óìåñòíî ïîñëàíèå àâòîðèòåòíûõ ëèö èç ÷èñëà æèòåëåé, â êîòîðîì áûëî áû ðàññêàçàíî î òîì, êàê ïðîòåêàåò æèçíü â Íîäüñîëîíòî ïîñëå çàíÿòèÿ ðóññêèìè, î òîì, ÷òî âñå îñòàëîñü ïî-ïðåæíåìó: ó÷ðåæäåíèÿ ðàáîòàþ, â öåðêâÿõ ïðîèñõîäèò áîãîñëóæåíèå, ìàãàçèíû îòêðûòû, â øêîëå èä¸ò ó÷åáà, íèêîãî íå ïðåñëåäóþò è íå ïðèòåñíÿþò.
Õîðîøî áûëî áû, ÷òîáû ïðîôåññîð Ñåíò-Äüåðäü, òàê æå â ëèñòîâêå, îïðîâåðã âîçâåä¸ííóþ íà íåãî êëåâåòó, åñëè îí äåéñòâèòåëüíî íå áåæàë èç Ñåãåäà.
Âîò ÷òî ïðîèçâåëî áû îãðîìíîå âîçäåéñòâèå íà æèòåëåé Áóäàïåøòà, äà è íà âñå íàñåëåíèå Âåíãðèè. Ýòî áóäåò íàèáîëåå äåéñòâåííîé ïðîïàãàíäîé Êðàñíîé Àðìèè è íàèëó÷øèì ðàçîáëà÷åíèå ëæèâîé ôàøèñòêîé ïðîïàãàíäû.…»
ÖÀÌÎ ÐÔ.
ôîíä 243, îïèñü 2914, äåëî 237, ëèñòû 322-325
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. òîì 14-3(2), Ñ. 331-335

Text English

The story of baron Ede Attselja very big (volume of this document five sheets of format A4 of the typewritten text in one interval)
I have taken therefrom that, as to lie about Red Army which the German and salashi propagation even in the autumn of 1944 and which continue to distribute about this day began to distribute.
The information on the contents of conversation of the officer of a political department of 46-th army with the delegate of committee of clearing of Hungary E.Attsel

On November, 27, 1944

On November, 25 the second lieutenant baron Attsel Ede being the delegate of Committee of clearing of Hungary has passed a front line. Baron Attsel has a task: to contact command of Red Army and general - colonel Janosh Vyoryosh taking place in the USSR, and as to broadcast the reference to Hungarian people and the population of Budapest.
Baron Attsel Ede – by a trade the engineer - agriculturist, one of active figures of a so-called Hungarian party in Transylvania. He has wide acquaintances in supervising circles of the Hungarian army. Under the confidential instruction of Joint Staff Attsel the guerrilla prepared groups Hungarian in case of war of Hungary with Romania. Groups were formed under a kind of preparation of mountain conductors.
Recently baron Attsel has consisten at a staff of 2-nd Hungarian army before arrest of the commander by army of general - colonel Vyoryosh Lajosh, the close friend and which adviser he is.
In conversation baron Attsel has informed the following:

«I am the close friend and the adviser of general - colonel Lajosh Vyoryosh and the person having extensive acquaintances in military circles.
When Russian army has entered to the Balkans, after capitulation of Romania and break of Bulgaria with Germany, for Lajosh Vyoryosh and for me it became clear, that Hungary should achieve the conclusion of an armistice with Russia if it does not wish to turn to arena of military actions. We understand, that Germans will use the best efforts to keep Hungary on the side, and by her devastation and victims though for some time to suspend promotion of Red Army to German borders.
On September, 22 general - colonel Vyoryosh Lajosh has charged me to make the way to Moscow and find out, what conditions of an armistice will be.

Known influence on army renders german and salasi’s propagation which of day in day in the most black paints describes « atrocities Russian in Hungary » Under influence of this propagation many outstanding civil and military figures get.
I recently saw the old familiar commander of division "Sent-Laslo" the colonel of Joint Staff Zjudi Zoltan. Conversation has gone about reference Janosh Vyoryosh. I have approved his reference. Zjudi has told: «I read reference Janosh Vyoryosh but if we shall be given on favour Russian, Hungary will be to enthral. I that Russian create in occupied areas!».

Thus the colonel of the story to me, that he heard that his relatives on an occupied territory have committed suicide, ostensibly, not having sustained mockeries on the part of Russian. About it to him have informed familiar. When I have doubted of it and have asked, who these were familiar, Zjudi has declared, that in general his duty – to arrest me as the person sympathizing the enemy, but in view of old acquaintance he releases me and hopes, that I shall be more cautious.
Then I have addressed to the chief of a staff of a division to major Lojtash. That appeared not such inveterate type as Zjudi, and has felt Janosh Vyoryosh. He has told to me confidentially, that in case favorable conditions for transition to the side of Red Army will be created, he will arrange all behind a back of "old man" (so he has named the commander of a division) by means of officers devoted to him.
...
Words about German propagation (this concept includes also propagation of government Salashi for she is identical with German) want still more some. This propagation is extremely active, and it is done convincing by that she gives reason the facts, by dates, figures and surnames.

Recently the notice that in Szeged the university is closed has done noise, and students are taken out to Russia.
Much wrote and informed by radio «atrocities Russian in Nod’solonto», stories of refugees therefrom, with transfer of surnames were transferred, that Russian, having entered in city, have raped many Hungarian women and girls and 9 from them have committed suicide.

These stories « about atrocities in Nod’solonto » up to that have been painted by official propagation, that about them and now goes other conversations in Budapest.
Messages that professor Sent-Djerd, the known scientist- vitaminologi, the Nobel prize winner, ran from Szeged for could not behold quietly disgrace which created Russian have been published.

I think, that the best means of exposure of fascist propagation is reciprocal propagation Russian – leaflets of performance by radio, as sated with the facts, figures, dates and surnames. For example, it was very convincing to let out a leaflet with the letter of students Stged’s of university that they have begun study at university. This leaflet should be dumped in huge quantities above Budapest and yet the Hungary not occupied with Russian part.
As to Nod’solonto, the message of authoritative persons here would be pertinent from among inhabitants in which it would be told about how life in Nod’solonto after occupation Russian proceeds, that all remained still: establishments I work, in churches there is a divine service, shops are open, at school there is a study, nobody pursued and do not oppress.
It would be good, that professor Sent-Djerd as in a leaflet, has denied the slander erected on him if he really did not run from Szeged.
That would make huge influence on inhabitants of Budapest, and on all population of Hungary. It will be the most effective propagation of Red Army and the best exposure false fascist propagation…»
CAMD RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
fund 243, inventory 2914, file 237, sheets 322-325
RA. GPW. vol 14-3 (2), S. 331-335

Michate
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#53

Post by Michate » 28 Sep 2006, 14:39

That both sides engaged in propaganda against each other is not in question, this is normal in time of war. However this is totally unrelated to the current discussion.

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Yuri
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Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 12:24
Location: Russia

#54

Post by Yuri » 28 Sep 2006, 18:40

Text Russian
Ñïåöèàëüíîå äîíåñåíèå êîìàíäîâàíèÿ 3-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà íà÷àëüíèêó Ãåíåðàëüíîãî
Øòàáà Êðàñíîé Àðìèè î íàìåðåíèÿõ ïðîòèâíèêà â ÿíâàðñêîì êîíòðíàñòóïëåíèè â ðàéîíå çàïàäíåå è þãî-çàïàäíåå Áóäàïåøòà è î ñîñòàâå åãî âîéñê.

9 ôåâðàëÿ 1945 ãîäà

 ðåçóëüòàòå èçó÷åíèÿ òðîôåéíûõ äîêóìåíòîâ øòàáà 4 òê ÑÑ íåìöåâ, çàõâà÷åííûõ 2.2.45 â ðàéîíå Ñåêåøôåõåðâàð, óñòàíîâëåíî:

1. Íåìåöêîå êîìàíäîâàíèå, îðãàíèçóÿ â ÿíâàðå ìåñÿöå êîíòðíàñòóïëåíèå ñèëàìè 6-é àðìèè, äåéñòâîâàâøèìè ïåðåä ïðàâûì ôëàíãîì 3-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà, ïðåñëåäîâàëî ñëåäóþùèå öåëè:
à) îñâîáîäèòü îêðóæ¸ííóþ áóäàïåøòñêóþ ãðóïïèðîâêó;
á) óíè÷òîæèòü íàøè âîéñêà, äåéñòâîâàâøèå çàïàäíåå è þãî-çàïàäíåå Áóäàïåøòà;
â) ïî âûïîëíåíèþ äâóõ ïåðâûõ çàäà÷ âîéñêà 6-é àðìèè äîëæíû áûëè íàíåñòè óäàð âäîëü Äóíàÿ íà þã.
Îäíîâðåìåííî ïëàíèðîâàëîñü íàñòóïëåíèå 2-é òàíêîâîé àðìèè íåìöåâ èç ðàéîíà âîñòî÷íåå Íàäüêàíèæà è ãðóïïû àðìèé «Ô» Âåéõñà èç-çà ðåêè Äðàâà â ñåâåðíîì íàïðàâëåíèè.
Òàêèì îáðàçîì, êîíå÷íîé öåëüþ âñåé çàäóìàííîé îïåðàöèè áûëî óíè÷òîæåíèå âîéñê 3-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà è âîññòàíîâëåíèå ëèíèè íåìåöêîé îáîðîíû ïî ðåêå Äóíàé.

2. Äëÿ âûïîëíåíèÿ ïîñòàâëåííûõ çàäà÷ íåìöû ñêîíöåíòðèðîâàëè ìåæäó ð. Äóíàé è îçåðîì Áàëàòîí âîéñêà 6-é àðìèè â ñëåäóþùåì ñîñòàâå:
4 òê ÑÑ, 3-é òàíêîâûé êîðïóñ, 1-é êàâàëåðèéñêèé êîðïóñ íåìöåâ, 7-é àðìåéñêèé êîðïóñ âåíãðîâ, â êîòîðûå âõîäèëè:
Òàíêîâûõ äèâèçèé – 7 (1,3, 6, 23, 3 òä ÑÑ «Òîòåíêîïô», 5 òä ÑÑ «Âèêèíã», 2 òä âåíãðîâ)
Ïåõîòíûõ äèâèçèé – 6 (96, 356 è 711 ïä íåìöåâ, 1, 23 è 25 ïä âåíãðîâ)
Êàâàëåðèéñêèõ äèâèçèé – 1 (1 êä âåíãðîâ)
Êàâàëåðèéñêèõ áðèãàä – 2 (3-ÿ è 4-ÿ êàâ. áðèãàäû íåìöåâ)
Àðòèëëåðèéñêèõ êîðïóñîâ – 1 (403-é êîðïóñ)
Àðòèëëåðèéñêèõ è ìèíîìåòíûõ áðèãàä – 3 (303-ÿ øòóðìîâàÿ àðòáðèãàäà, 17-ÿ è 29-ÿ ìèíîìåòíûå áðèãàäû)
Îòäåëüíûõ òàíêîâûõ áàòàëüîíîâ – 3 (503-é è 509-é áàòàëüîíû «òèãðîâ», 1-é áàòàëüîí 24 òï)
Îòäåëüíûõ äèâèçèîíîâ øòóðìîâûõ îðóäèé – 2 (219 è 1335)
Îòäåëüíûõ àðòïîëêîâ ÐÃÊ – 3 (511, 869, 870)
Îòäåëüíûõ àðòäèâèçèîíîâ ÐÃÊ – 6 (809-é äèâèçèîí íåìöåâ, 6, 16, 37, 73, 84-é äèâèçèîíû âåíãðîâ)
Îòäåëüíûõ ìèíîìåòíûõ äèâèçèîíîâ – 3 (504-é äèâèçèîí íåìöåâ, 25-é è 151-é äèâèçèîíû âåíãðîâ)
Êðîìå òîãî, ïðîòèâíèê èñïîëüçîâàë äëÿ ïðîòèâîòàíêîâîé îáîðîíû íåñêîëüêî äèâèçèîíîâ 15-é çåíèòíîé äèâèçèè.
Îïåðàöèÿ ïîääåðæèâàëàñü àâèàöèåé 1-ãî âîçäóøíîãî ôëîòà íåìöåâ.
Ãëàâíûé óäàð íàíîñèëñÿ âîéñêàìè 4 òê ÑÑ (3 òä ÑÑ «Òîòåíêîïô», 5 òä ÑÑ «Âèêèíã», 1 è 3 òä) ïðè ïîääåðæêè îñíîâíûõ ñðåäñòâ óñèëåíèÿ.

3. Èç ïåðåãîâîðîâ êîìàíäóþùåãî 6-é àðìèè ñ êîìàíäèðîì 4 òê ÑÑ âèäíî, ÷òî çàäà÷à íà äàííóþ îïåðàöèþ áûëà ïîñòàâëåíà íåïîñðåäñòâåííî Ãèòëåðîì. Îïåðàöèÿ ðàññ÷èòûâàëàñü èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî íà áûñòðîòó äâèæåíèÿ òàíêîâûõ äèâèçèé, ñ öåëüþ âûñâîáîæäåíèÿ áóäàïåøòñêîé îêðóæåííîé ãðóïïèðîâêè, ïîñëå ÷åãî äîëæíû áûëè âûïîëíÿòüñÿ âòîðàÿ è òðåòüÿ çàäà÷è, ïðè ýòîì êîìàíäîâàíèå 6-é àðìèè ðàññ÷èòûâàëî íà çíà÷èòåëüíóþ îòòÿæêó ñèë ñ ôðîíòà íàøåé 57-é àðìèè, ÷åì îáëåã÷àëîñü áû íàñòóïëåíèå 2-é òàíêîâîé àðìèè ñî ñòîðîíû Íàäüêàíèæà è ãðóïïû Âåéõñà èç ðàéîíà Îñèåê, ãäå áûëè ñêîíöåíòðèðîâàíû äåñÿòü- îäèííàäöàòü äèâèçèé. Õîä îïåðàöèè íåïðåðûâíî êîíòðîëèðîâàëñÿ ñòàâêîé Ãèòëåðà.

4.  ñâÿçè ñ ïåðåõîäîì â íàñòóïëåíèå âîéñê ôðîíòà è îñîáåííî â ðàéîíå ñåâåðíåå Ñåêåøôåõåðâàð êîìàíäîâàíèåì 6-é àðìèè íåìöåâ 2.2.45 áûëî îòäàíî ðàñïîðÿæåíèå êîìàíäèðàì 3 è 4 òê íà÷àòü îòõîä íà ñîêðàù¸ííóþ ëèíèþ ôðîíòà ìåæäó îçåðîì Áàëàòîí
îçåðîì Âåëåíöå, ñ òåì ÷òîáû âûâåñòè èç ïåðâîé ëèíèè äâå òàíêîâûå äèâèçèè (1 òä è 3 òä ÑÑ «Òîòåíêîïô»), êîòîðûå ïåðåáðàñûâàëèñü ê ðàéîíó ïðîðûâà ñåâåðíåå Ñåêåøôåõåðâàð ñ öåëü âîññòàíîâëåíèè óòðà÷åííûõ ïîçèöèé. Îäíîâðåìåííî äâà çåíèòíûõ äèâèçèîíà 15-é çåíèòíîé äèâèçèè ïåðåáðàñûâàëèñü íà äîðîãó Ñåêåøôåõåðâàð–Âàðïàëîòà â êà÷åñòâå ïðîòèâîòàíêîâîãî çàñëîíà äëÿ ïðåäîòâðàùåíèÿ ïðîðûâà íàøèõ òàíêîâ íà Âàðïîëîòà.

5. Ñðåäè çàõâà÷åííûõ äîêóìåíòîâ èìåþòñÿ: êàðòû ñ ðàçãðàíè÷èòåëüíûìè ëèíèÿìè, ïðèêàç 4 òê ÑÑ íà íàñòóïëåíèå 18.1.45 ã., ïðèêàçû ïî àðòèëëåðèè, ïðèêàç ïî òûëó, êîïèè áîåâûõ äîíåñåíèé 4 òê ÑÑ â øòàá 6-é àðìèè, ðàçâåäûâàòåëüíàÿ ñâîäêà è äðóãèå äîêóìåíòû.
Ïîñëå ïåðåâîäà è îáðàáîòêè äîêóìåíòû áóäóò Âàì âûñëàíû.

Ô. Òîëáóõèí
À. Æåëòîâ
Ñ. Èâàíîâ
ÖÀÌÎ ÐÔ.
ôîíä 243, îïèñü 2900, äåëî 1903, ëèñòû 1-3. Ïîäëèííèê
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. òîì 14-3(2), Ñ. 367-368

Text English
The special report of command of 3-rd Ukrainian front to the chief General
Staff of Red Army about intentions of the opponent in January counterattack in area to the west both southwest of Budapest and about structure of his armies.

On February, 9, 1945

As a result of studying trophy documents of a staff 4 Tank Corps SS the Germans seized 2/2/45 in area Sekeshfehervar, it is established:

1. German Command, organizing in January counterattack by forces of 6-th army working before the right flank of 3-rd Ukrainian front, pursued the following purposes:
a) To release(exempt) the surrounded Budapest grouping;
b) To destroy our armies working to the west and southwest of Budapest;
c) On performance of the two first tasks of an army of 6-th army should strike along Danube on the south.
Approach of 2-nd tank army of Germans from area to the east Nad’kanizha and groups of armies "F" Weichs because of the river Drava in northern direction was simultaneously planned.
Thus, a ultimate goal of all conceived operation was destruction of armies of 3-rd Ukrainian front and restoration of a line of German defense on the river Danube.

2. For performance of tasks in view Germans have concentrated between ð. Danube and lake Balaton of an army of 6-th army in the following structure:
4 Tank Corps SS, 3-rd Tank Corps, 1-st Cavalry Ñorps of Germans, 7-th Army Corps of Hungarians into which entered:
Tank divisions – 7 (1, 3, 6, 23, 3 TD SS "Totenkopf", 5 TD SS "Viking", 2 TD Hungarians)
Infantry divisions – 6 (96, 356 and 711 ID Germans, 1, 23 and 25 ID Hungarians)
Cavalry divisions – 1 (1 CD Hungarians)
Cavalry brigades – 2 (3-n and 4-n Cavalry Brigades of Germans)
Artillery Corps – 1 (403-rd case)
Artillery and mortars brigades – 3 (303-n assault artillery brigades, 17-n and 29-n mortars brigades)
Separate tank battalions – 3 (503-rd and 509-th battalions of "Tigers", 1-st battalion 24 TR)
Separate battalions of assault guns – 2 (219 and 1335)
Separate Artillery Regiments RMC – 3 (511, 869, 870)
Separate Artillery Divisional RMC – 6 (809-th battalion of Germans, 6, 16, 37, 73, 84-th battalions of Hungarians)
Separate mortars battalions – 3 (504-th battalion of Germans, 25-th and 151-st battalions of Hungarians)
Besides the opponent used some battalions of 15-th antiaircraft division for anti-tank defense.
Operation was supported by aircraft of 1-st Air Fleet of Germans.
The main impact was rendered by armies 4 Tank Corps SS (3 TD SS "Totenkopf", 5 TD SS "Viking", 1 and 3 TD) at support of the basic means of strengthening.

3. From negotiations of the commander of 6-th army with the commander 4 Tank Corps SS it is visible, that the task on the given operation has been put directly Hitler. Operation paid off exclusively on speed of movement of tank divisions, with the purpose of liberation of the Budapest surrounded grouping then the second and third tasks should carry out, thus command of 6-th army expected for a significant delay of forces from front of our 57-th army, than approach of 2-nd Tank Army from side Nadkanizha and groups Weichs of area Osijek where ten eleven divisions have been concentrated would be facilitated. The course of operation was continuously supervised by Hitler’s HQ.

4. In connection with transition in approach of armies of front also it was especial in area to the north Sekeshfekhervar command of 6-th army of Germans 2/2/45 the order to commanders 3 is given and 4 TC to begin a withdrawal on the reduced front line between lake Balaton
lake Velentse to remove from the first line two tank divisions (1 TD and 3 TD SS "Totenkopf") which were thrown to area of break to the north Sekeshfekhervar about the purpose restoration of the lost positions. Simultaneously two antiaircraft battalions of 15-th antiaircraft division were thrown on road Sekeshfekhervar-Varpalota as an anti-tank barrier for prevention of break of our tanks on Varpalota.

5. Among the seized documents are available: cards(maps) with differentiating lines, the order 4 Tank Corps SS on approach of 18/1/45, orders on artilleries, the order on rear, copies of fighting reports 4 Tank Corps SS in a staff of 6-th Army, the prospecting report and other documents.
After translation and processing documents will be sent to you.

F.Tolbuhin
A.Zheltov
S.Ivanov
CAMD RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
fund 243, inventory 2900, file 1903, sheets 1-3. Origenal
RA. GPW. vol 14-3 (2), S. 367-368

User avatar
Alex Yeliseenko
Member
Posts: 1119
Joined: 25 Jan 2006, 16:40
Location: RUSSIA

#55

Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 30 Sep 2006, 20:04

Andreas wrote:I think what Alex means are heavily damaged tanks, not lightly. That is how I interpret his use of the word 'hard'. This could make sense, if such tanks were sent back to the factory for rebuilding. If they are taken off the strength list as a write-off (meaning not repairable by field army/depot means), and shipped back, they could well be counted as new production, since they would take a production slot in the factory, and be issued as new to the accepting institution following their rebuild.

In any case, that is how I read it. It would be helpful for Alex to clarify.

All the best

Andreas
Hi,

You have well understood my words. heavily damaged tanks is a correct term. There was a significant amount non-battle casualtes. Tanks fell in the rivers, in breakages, in mountains. These are lacks of training of crews. Such losses was in different Soviet operations - from 1 up to 15 %. It is in brochure Igumenov. I regret, there there are no reasons of losses to Budapest operation.

Here the Soviet losses in tanks 3 Ukrainian front in 1944:

In total losses of tanks and SPG - 2075 (including Т-34 - 1299)

Fighting losses: 1773 (Т-34 - 1014) - % 82,5 (78)

Technical malfunctions: 323 (260)

Other reasons of losses: 39 (25)

Best Regards, Alex

User avatar
Yuri
Member
Posts: 1969
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 12:24
Location: Russia

#56

Post by Yuri » 01 Oct 2006, 10:53

During battle for Budapest in structure of divisions and brigades of Red Army the Hungarian companys battled. Soldiers officers such a companys came over to on the side of Red Army voluntary.
It is necessary to mean, that these Hungarian companys were not part of the Hungarian divisions created by the time Hungarian government.


Text Russian
Äîêëàä îôèöåðîâ øòàáà 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà î ñîñòîÿíèè ïîäðàçäåëåíèé, ñôîðìèðîâàííûõ èç âåíãåðñêèõ äîáðîâîëüöåâ ñ ïîìîùüþ êîìàíäîâàíèÿ âîéñê Êðàñíîé Àðìèè.

3 ìàðòà 1945 ãîäà

Ïî ïðèêàçàíèþ ÷ëåíà Âîåííîãî ñîâåòà 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà ãåíåðàë-ïîëêîâíèêà òîâàðèùà Ñóñàéêîâà ìû – êàïèòàí Í. Àðáàòñêèé (ðàáîòíèê Ðàçâåäûâàòåëüíîãî îòäåëà øòàáà 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà), êàïèòàí Ìîñèí (ðàáîòíèê îòäåëà óêîìïëåêòîâàíèÿ 2-ãî Óêðàèíñêîãî ôðîíòà) – 18/2/45 ãîäà âûåõàëè â ðàéîí çàïàäíîé ÷àñòè Áóäàïåøòà ñ çàäà÷åé óñòàíîâèòü íàëè÷èå, ñîñòàâ è ñîñòîÿíèå âåíãåðñêèõ ïîäðàçäåëåíèé ñôîðìèðîâàííûõ èç ÷èñëà äîáðîâîëüíî ïåðåøåäøèõ íà íàøó ñòîðîíó âåíãåðñêèõ ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ è ïðèíèìàâøèõ ó÷àñòèå â áîÿõ ïî î÷èùåíèþ Áóäû îò íåìåöêèõ è âåíãåðñêèõ ÷àñòåé.
 ðåçóëüòàòå íàøåé ðàáîòû óñòàíîâëåíî ñëåäóþùåå.

 ïåðèîä îêðóæåíèÿ Áóäàïåøòà èç ÷èñëà îêðóæ¸ííûõ âîéñê íà íàøó ñòîðîíó ïåðåõîäèëè âåíãåðñêèå ñîëäàò è îôèöåðû, îäèíî÷íî è ãðóïïàìè, è òóò æå èçúÿâëÿëè æåëàíèå âîåâàòü íà ñòîðîíå Êðàñíîé Àðìèè ïðîòèâ íåìöåâ è ñàëàøèñòîâ.  íåêîòîðûõ äèâèçèÿõ áûëè ñîçäàíû ðîòû ïî 100-150 ÷åëîâåê, êîòîðûå âîîðóæàëèñü, ñíàáæàëèñü íà îáùèõ îñíîâàíèÿõ íàøèõ ÷àñòåé, â ñîñòàâå ïîëêîâ ïðèíèìàëè ó÷àñòèå â áîÿõ. Òàêèå ðîòû áûëè â 317 ÑÄ, 180 ÑÄ, 83-é ñòðåëêîâîé áðèãàäå è äðóãèõ.
Ýòè ðîòû ïîêàçàëè ñåáÿ ñ ïîëîæèòåëüíîé ñòîðîíû. Òàê, ðîòà ïîä êîìàíäîâàíèåì êàïèòàíà Íåìåøâàðè Ýðí¸ (ñîçäàííàÿ â 317 ñä), íàñ÷èòûâàâøàÿ 105 ÷åëîâåê, çà êîðîòêîå âðåìÿ âçÿëà â ïëåí 300 âåíãåðñêèõ ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ, 40 íåìåöêèõ ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ, óíè÷òîæèëà 50 íåìöåâ.  áîÿõ ðîòà ïîíåñëà ïîòåðè – 18 ÷åëîâåê óáèòûìè.
Ðîòà êàïèòàíà Íåìåò Èìðå (83-ÿ ñòðåëêîâàÿ áðèãàäà) âçÿëà â ïëåí äî 250 íåìöåâ è âåíãðîâ.
Ðîòà êàïèòàíà Ïîãàíü Èøòâàíà (83-ÿ ñòðåëêîâàÿ áðèãàäà) ÷èñëåííîñòüþ 110 ÷åëîâåê âçÿëà â ïëåí äî 200 íåìöåâ è âåíãðîâ.  áîÿõ ïîòåðÿëà 8 ÷åëîâåê óáèòûìè.

Ïåðåøåäøèå íà íàøó ñòîðîíó ïîëêîâíèê âèòÿçü Âàðèõàçè Îñêàð – êîìàíäèð 6 ïï 10 ïä (âåíãåðñêîé) ñî ñâîèì øòàáîì è îñòàòêàìè ïîëêà â 300 ÷åëîâåê õîðîøî âîåâàë íà ñòîðîíå Êðàñíîé Àðìèè ïî ëèêâèäàöèè îêðóæ¸ííîé ãðóïïèðîâêè.
×èñëåííîñòü âåíãåðñêèõ ðîò óâåëè÷èâàëàñü ñ êàæäûì äí¸ì, ê 18/2/45 ãîäà ÷èñëåííîñòü âåíãåðñêèõ ðîò ñîñòàâëÿëà â 18 ñê – 913 ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ, 37 ñê – 1316 ÷åëîâåê, 75 ñê – 185 ÷åëîâåê.

Ïîñëå ëèêâèäàöèè îêðóæ¸ííîé ãðóïïèðîâêè è â ñâÿçè ñ ïåðåäèñëîêàöèåé íàøèõ ÷àñòåé âñå âåíãåðñêèå ïîäðàçäåëåíèÿ 20/2/45 ñîñðåäîòî÷åíû â Áóäà (Êåëåíôåëüä, óëèöà Êèðàëü, äîì ¹ 5) â ïîä÷èíåíèå 180 ñä (êîìàíäèð äèâèçèè ãâàðäèè ïîäïîëêîâíèê Ðàõìàíèí) 75 ñê.
Èç âåíãåðñêèõ ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ ñôîðìèðîâàí ïîëê ïîä êîìàíäîâàíèåì ïîäïîëêîâíèêà âèòÿçÿ Âàðèõàçè Îñêàðà (â ïîëêó 5 áàòàëüîíîâ).
 ïîëêó íà 21.2.45 ãîäà íàñ÷èòûâàëîñü îôèöåðîâ – 150, èç íèõ ïîäïîëêîâíèêîâ – 1, êàïèòàíîâ – 15, ñòàðøèõ ëåéòåíàíòîâ – 32, ëåéòåíàíòîâ – 47, ìëàäøèõ ëåéòåíàíòîâ – 55.
Ìëàäøèõ îôèöåðîâ – 819, ðÿäîâûõ – 1565. Âñåãî – 2534 ÷åëîâåêà.
Ïî ðîäàì âîéñê: àðòèëëåðèñòîâ –1189, ñàï¸ðîâ –65, ïåõîòèíöåâ –385, òàíêèñòîâ – 117, ñâÿçèñòîâ – 309, ïðî÷èõ – 469.
Êîëè÷åñòâî ó÷àñòâîâàâøèõ â áîÿõ íà ñòîðîíå Êðàñíîé àðìèè – 2467.

Âîîðóæåíèå: âèíòîâêè âåíãåðñêèå è íåìåöêèå – 409, àâòîìàòû âåíãåðñêèå – 4, ïóëåì¸òû âåíãåðñêèå –6, ïðîòèâîòàíêîâûå ïóëåì¸òû – 2, ãðàíàòû – 600, ïàòðîíû íåìåöêèå è âåíãåðñêèå –60 000.
Ñîëäàòû è îôèöåðîâ ïîëíîñòüþ îáìóíäèðîâàíû. Íàñòðîåíèå ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ áîåâîå. Ïðîñÿò ñêîðåå îòïðàâèòü íà ôðîíò, ïðîñÿò âûäàòü èì ðóññêîå îðóæèå, çàÿâëÿÿ, ÷òî áîé ïîêàçàë, ÷òî ñàìîå ëó÷øåå îðóæèå – ðóññêîå.
Äî 20/2/45 ãîäà âåíãåðñêèå ðîòû ñíàáæàëèñü íà îáùèõ îñíîâàíèÿõ ñ Êðàñíîé Àðìèåé. Ïî ïðèêàçó èíòåíäàíòà 46-é àðìèè âåíãåðñêèé ïîëê ñ 21.2.45 ãîäà ñíàáæàåòñÿ, êàê âîåííîïëåííûå. Ýòî, åñòåñòâåííî, äîëæíî îòðàçèòüñÿ íà ïîëîæåíèè íàñòðîåíèÿ âåíãåðñêèõ ñîëäàò è îôèöåðîâ.

Âûâîä:
1. Âåíãåðñêèé ïîëê íàõîäèòñÿ â ïîä÷èíåíèè 75 ñê, ïðè âíèìàòåëüíîì îòíîøåíèè â íåìó â áëèæàéøåå âðåìÿ ìîæåò áûòü èñïîëüçîâàí êàê õîðîøàÿ áîåâàÿ åäèíèöà.
2. Äî ìîìåíòà ïåðåäà÷è âåíãåðñêîãî ïîëêà âåíãåðñêîìó ïðàâèòåëüñòâó ñëåäóåò ñíàáæàòü íà îáùèõ îñíîâàíèÿõ ñ Êðàñíîé Àðìèåé, âïîñëåäñòâèè îòíåñÿ ðàñõîäû íà ñ÷¸ò âåíãåðñêîãî ïðàâèòåëüñòâà.

Ãâàðäèè êàïèòàí Àðáàòñêèé
Êàïèòàí Ìîñèí
ÖÀÌÎ ÐÔ
ôîíä 240, îïèñü 2761, äåëî 420, ëèñò 154-155. Ïîäëèííèê
ÐÀ. ÂÎÂ. òîì 14-3(2). Ñ.374-376.

Text English

The report of officers of a staff of 2-nd Ukrainian front on a condition of the divisions generated from the Hungarian volunteers with the help of the Soviet command of the Red Army.

On March, 3, 1945

On an order of a member of the Military council of 2-nd Ukrainian front of the general - colonel of comrade Susajkov we are a captain N.Arbatsky (the worker of the Prospecting department of a staff of 2-nd Ukrainian front), captain Mosin (the worker of Ñompletion department of 2-nd Ukrainian front) – 18/2/45 years have left in area of the western part of Budapest with a task to establish presence, structure and a condition of the Hungarian divisions generated of number voluntary on our side passed of the Hungarian soldiers and officers and taking part in fights on clarification Buda from German and Hungarian units.
As a result of our work the following is established.
During an environment of Budapest from among the surrounded armies on our side passed Hungarian the soldier and officers, the single and groups, and there and then expressed desire to be at war on the side of Red Army against Germans and salashi’s. In some divisions companys on 100-150 person which armed, supplied in accordance with general practice our parts have been created, in structure regiments took part in fights. Such companys were in 317 RD, 180 RD, 83-rd rifle brigade and others.

These company have proved to be from the positive side. So, a company under command of captain Nemeshvari Ernyo (created in 317 RD), the totaling 105 person, for short time has taken prisoner 300 Hungarian soldiers and officers, 40 German soldiers and officers, has destroyed 50 Germans. In fights of a company has had in loss – 18 person killed.
Company of captain Nemet Imre (83-n rifle brigade) has taken prisoner up to 250 Germans and Hungarians.

Company of the captain Defile Ishtvan (83-n rifle brigade) number 110 person has taken prisoner up to 200 Germans and Hungarians. In fights has lost 8 person killed.
Passed on our side the colonel the hero Varihazi Oscar – the commander 6 IR 10 ID (Hungarian) with the staff and the rests a regiment in 300 person well was at war on the side of Red Army on liquidation of the surrounded grouping.
Number Hungarian a companys increased every day, to 18/2/45 years number Hungarian a companys made in 18 Rifle Corps – 913 soldiers and officers, 37 Rifle Corps – 1316 person, 75 Rifle Corps – 185 person.

After liquidation of the surrounded grouping and in connection with moves our units all Hungarian divisions 20/2/45 are concentrated in Buda (Kelenfeld, street Kiral, the house ¹ 5) in submission 180 RD (the commander of a division of guards lieutenant colonel Rahmanin) 75 Rifle Corps.
From the Hungarian soldiers and officers it is generated regiments under command of the lieutenant colonel of the hero Varihazi Oscar (in regiment of 5 battalions).
In a regiment for 21.2.45 years it was totaled officers – 150, from them lieutenant colonels – 1, captains – 15, senior lieutenants – 32, lieutenants – 47, second lieutenants – 55.
Younger officers – 819, private soldiers – 1565. In total – 2534 persons.
On arms of the service: gunners-1189, sappers-65, infantrymen-385, tankmen – 117, signalmen – 309, other – 469.
Quantity participating in fights on the side of Red Army – 2467.

Arms: rifles Hungarian and German – 409, automatic devices Hungarian – 4, machine guns Hungarian–6, anti-tank machine guns – 2, pomegranates – 600, cartridges German and Hungarian-60000.
Soldiers and officers completely regimentals. Mood of soldiers and officers fighting. Ask to send more likely on front, ask to give out to them the Russian weapon, declaring, that fight has shown, that the best weapon – Russian.

Till 20/2/45 years the Hungarian companys were supplied in accordance with general practice with Red Army. Under the order of the quartermaster of 46-th army Hungarian regiments about 21/2/45 it is supplied, as POWs. It, naturally, should be reflected in position of mood of the Hungarian soldiers and officers.

Conclusion:
1. Hungarian regiments is in submission 75 Rifle Corps, at the attentive attitude in him in the near future can be used as good fighting unit.
2. Till the moment of transfer Hungarian a shelf the Hungarian government should supply in accordance with general practice with Red Army, subsequently having attributed charges on the account of the Hungarian government.


guards captain Arbatsky
captain Mosin
CAMD THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
fund 240, inventory 2761, file 420, sheet 154-155. The original
RA. GPW. vol. 14-3 (2), S. 374-376.

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Qvist
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#57

Post by Qvist » 09 Oct 2006, 01:13

Michate:

Lend-Lease tanks - of course. I forgot that. I think it's even referred to in the footnote, if I remember correctly. That would not leave a lot of room for heavily damaged tanks.

cheers

Andreas
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#58

Post by Andreas » 09 Oct 2006, 12:13

Qvist wrote:Michate:

Lend-Lease tanks - of course. I forgot that. I think it's even referred to in the footnote, if I remember correctly. That would not leave a lot of room for heavily damaged tanks.

cheers
Unless rebuilt tanks are also included in the production figures. I think you are currently assuming that they are not, and that they would only be included in the delivery figures and that production only refers to newly built tanks? I admit I know next to nothing about what these figures are based on, so I do not know if that is a feasible hypothesis.

All the best

Andreas

Michate
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#59

Post by Michate » 09 Oct 2006, 12:29

Unless rebuilt tanks are also included in the production figures. I think you are currently assuming that they are not, and that they would only be included in the delivery figures and that production only refers to newly built tanks? I admit I know next to nothing about what these figures are based on, so I do not know if that is a feasible hypothesis.
That is indeed the core of the problem, it seems to be unknown whether the Soviet production figures includes repair of damaged vehicles within the factories.

I just noted that the figures given in the Krivosheev book for "tanks and SP guns accepted by the Red Army" are very close to the sum of the figures given elsewhere for Soviet production and LL vehicles, which still does not exclude that opportunity. I think an answer would require some study in detail of the records from the production facilities as well as the army services that took over the vehicles, and I would certainly be interested in seeing more data related to that question.

Andreas
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Joined: 10 Nov 2002, 15:12
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#60

Post by Andreas » 09 Oct 2006, 12:33

It would be helpful if Alex could let us know whether that was the case. I must say that I would not be surprised to see them included in the production statistics, if they had to be re-entered into the production system for re-building. In that case they would have occupied a slot in which otherwise a new tank could have been built, so it would be reasonable for a factory to count them towards their output. But that is a common sense argument not based on anything by the way of documentation.

All the best

Andreas

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