Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

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ATH
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#196

Post by ATH » 09 May 2007, 05:53

On a document showing all alarm-battalions and other separate units acting under 3 Rum. Army on the 3rd of december, there is a mention of elements of 8 LwFD.
Besides the fact that the 8 LwFD elements appear last of 23 units, what's interesting is that this is typed document except for that very last entry which is handwritten.

Rum. AOK 3 Ia No. 58/42 geh.
-23.)
-I./Lw.Jg.Btl. (Lw.Feld-Div. 8)
-1. - 4. Kp., 9. u. 10. Kp.
-je Kp. ca. 150 M.
-45 lMG, 18 sMG, 2 lGrW, 4 sGrW
This is the entire first and half the third battalions of the division hence references to either 1 1/2 battalions if you count company numbers or 2 battalions if you count battalions, are in fact correct.

ATH
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#197

Post by ATH » 09 May 2007, 08:29

Hi Abel,

Alarm-Btl. Morosowskaja II and 3./Sich.Regt. 177 both moved to Ssiwoloboff/Sivolobov (± 5 km northwest of Chernyshkovskij, on the Tsimla river) on the 2nd of December. As of the 7.12., they were still there. So we can say that Morosowskaja II stayed with Gr. Stahel for the whole of december.
I have absolutely no mention of 4./Sich.Regt 177 to date. 3./Sich.Regt. 177 is mentioned everywhere though.

Alarm-Btl.Charkow I was defending Chuvilevskij between Nizh.-kalinovskaja and Novo-Derbenovskij, that is on the boundary between Stahel and Stumpfeld.

As for the 336 Inf. Div, 9. and 11. companies of 336 Arty Regt arrived in Chernyshkovskij on the 1st of december and set off to Verkhne Solonovskij on the 2.12. Actually, other companies of 336 ID arrived on the 2.12 in Chernykovskij, which is located in the area of Gr. Stahel, so that may explain the reference to Tle. 336.I.D.


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#198

Post by Abel Ravasz » 09 May 2007, 13:06

Hi GG,

I see you're very well off with documents 8O :D

Well, the 4./Sich Reg 177 is not my invention, it is from a document quoted by Tiecke. It might as well be a typo for the 3./177.

I understand that Charkow I. was on the boundary. I also recon that this battalion was one of the initial units forming Gr. Stahel (with Morosowskaja I. and Alarm Btl Nasch Btl I.). I just thought that by 3/12 it was already with Selle's group (f.e. the document we have briefly mailed about says so).

I stand corrected regarding the 336. Inf Div. I had data about the bulk only.

One more tidbit; Feldbahn-Bataillon 502 reported losses as part of "our" Gruppe Stahel.

Abel

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Yuri
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#199

Post by Yuri » 10 May 2007, 22:30

Today has found out in archive of the report on armored technical equipment (Bronesvodki) for 5-th tank army on December 7,10 and 11, 1942. Thus, we receive an opportunity to find out as far as are exact the general Balck's messages of on his brilliant victory over Russian barbarians in battle for state farm «Red Star» (sovkhoz 79).
Tomorrow I can make extracts of archival documents.

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#200

Post by ATH » 11 May 2007, 03:38

Hi Abel,

Actually there was a typo in the Gr. Stumpfeld document. It was not reserve flak abteilung 145, but reserve flak abteilung 147... yep, it was simply that one.

Br.B.Nr. 6179/42 geh. 18.12.42. - An Verb.Kdo.d.Luftflotte 4; Bei Heeresgruppe Don.
Gliederung der auf Zusammenarbeit mit Heeresteilen angewiesenen Flakkräfte im Bereich der Heeresgruppe Don:

A. 6.Armee.
{cut}
B. 4.Panzerarmee
1.) Flakrgt.7 (Zus.Arbeit mit LVII.Pz.K. u. IV.rum.AK.)
{cut}

2.) Gef.Verband 9.Flakdivision Tormosin (zus.Arbeit mit XXXXVIII.Pz.K.)
a) Lei Res.Flakabt.774
---- mit 4./774 (3 Züge), 3./147, 3. u. 4./38
b) 1./9, 3./241, 1 Zug 3./FAS, Reste lei 91. 2 schw. Feldkompanien

C. 3.rum.Armee

1.) Flakrgt.99 (zus.Arbeit mit Gruppe Stahel)
a) I/Flakrgt.38
---- mit 1., 2., 9., 10./38
b) Res.Flakabt.147
---- mit 2./147, 1. u. 2./236, 1./774, 4./774 (1 Zug)
___1./Feld-FAS 40; Erg.Battr.14 u. 6./VI

2.) 4./147 u. 5./147 (Zus.Arbeit mit Gruppe Spang)

D. Gruppe Hollidt
a) II/Flakrgt.38
---- mit 7. u. 8./38
b) I/Flakrgt.5
---- mit ½ - 1./5, 2., 3., 4. u. 5./5.

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Yuri
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#201

Post by Yuri » 11 May 2007, 11:02

Earlier I mentioned battle group of colonel Schultz.
However now I should bring in essential specification. I managed to find out more correct data on it to group.
The rank at Schultz has been determined not truly. Schultz was the ober-lieutenant.
The error has arisen so.
In the beginning Schultz's rank have defined as the oberst-lieutenant - that at Russian corresponds podpolkovnik. Then in Russian documents the prefix pod-has disappeared, thus the ober-lieutenant has been raised in a rank Russian up to polkovnik, that is oberst!
However soon have found out, that Schultz had a rank the ober-lieutenant and commanded group in amount of 400 soldiers and the corporals collected from structure of anti-tank units of those German divisions which have got to the Stalingrad boiler.
The ober-lieutenant Schultz's group had no own defended area. Colonel Shmid threw this group on that defended area Surovikino which was exposed to the greater danger .
After Germans were evacuated by Surovikino, group ober-lieutenant Schultz has receded on a southwest. Here it has received updating - "hundred" which has arrived from Western Ukraine. This the ukrainian "hundred" actually had 200 person, and somebody commanded these bastards on surname Kuskov.
It is interesting, that a surname at the commander this Ukrainians extremely Russian. In the Ukrainian language this surname should sound so Shmatok

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#202

Post by ATH » 17 May 2007, 21:50

:)
Here is something to crunch for the statistic fanatics among us! There remains questions however. Is the Luftwaffe field divisions included? Do they only count German forces or Rumanian also? What do they mean by 384 ID when the document shows the situation as of 1 december when 384 was still in the Stalingrad pocket? Does that mean that Gruppe Adam and Heilmann are excluded? (BTW, the document has been produced on the 15 December 42 - H.Gr.Don Ia Nr. 283/42 geh.)

Well actually, it would have been useful to know what was included in the Pz.AOK.4 and Rum.AOK.3 numbers...
Oberkommando Heeresgruppe Don
Stand: 1.12.42.

Iststärken- und Fehlstellenmeldung.

------------------------------------------------------------------Iststärke
-----------------------------------------------Offz----------Bea---------Uffz-----------Mschft
Gr. Hollidt
Stab, Korps- und Heer-Tr.------------58------------24----------261-------------465
22.Pz.Div.-----------------------------------214----------93---------1288------------6058
294.I.D.--------------------------------------328-----------83---------2063-----------10050
62.I.D.----------------------------------------257-----------75---------1909------------8921

Pz.AOK.4----------------------------------638------------235--------3599-----------17912

Rum.AOK.3--------------------------------547-------------85---------2969-----------22210

AOK 6

Befh.H.G.Don------------------------------149-------------167--------842-------------1948

Pion.-Tr.-------------------------------------132-----------22------------901------------6092
Nachr.-Tr.------------------------------------90------------18------------404------------2263
Kart.u.Verm.Abt.(mot) 617------------12-------------2--------------37--------------128
A.Kart.St.521-------------------------------1------------------------------11---------------44
Kart.Lg.566--------------------------------------------------1---------------3----------------28
Führgs.Abt.Obkdo.H.Gr.---------------47-------------13------------53--------------188

-------------------------------------------------2473----------818---------14340----------76307

-----------------------------------------------------------------Fehlstellen
------------------------------------------------Offz--------------Uffz------------Mschft
Gr. Hollidt
Stab, Korps- und Heer-Tr.-------------16--------------21---------------110
22.Pz.Div.----------------------------------100-------------845-------------2049
294.I.D.---------------------------------------81-------------555-------------2680
62.I.D.----------------------------------------135------------612-------------2938

Pz.AOK.4------------------------------------95------------352--------------1455

Rum.AOK.3--------------------------------195-----------1119-------------5219

AOK 6

Befh.H.G.Don

Pion.-Tr.--------------------------------------60--------------72----------------821
Nachr.-Tr.------------------------------------19-------------127---------------198
Kart.u.Verm.Abt.(mot) 617--------------1---------------4------------------4
A.Kart.St.521--------------------------------1---------------1------------------10
Kart.Lg.566------------------------------------------------------------------------2
Führgs.Abt.Obkdo.H.Gr.

--------------------------------------------------703------------3708------------15486


Bemerkungen :
22.Pz.Div. ohne Pi.Btl.50
294. I.D. ohne Pi.Btl.294
Pz. AOK 4 ohne 6., 11., 23. Pz., 336. u. 384. I.D. u. versch.Heerestrupp. (siehe Anlage)
AOK 6 keine Meldung möglich
Befh.H.G.Don Fehlstellen können nicht gemeldet werden, da keine Sollstärken gekannt


Ferner können nicht gemeldet werden:
304. u. 306. I.D., 3.Geb.Div. Und 17. Pz.Div. Sowie O.Qu.-Abt. Mit allen unterstellten Versorgungs-, Sanitäts-, Veterinär- usw. -Einheite

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Yuri
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#203

Post by Yuri » 23 May 2007, 20:50

ATH wrote:Another document that might be useful. Collected and organized units of Gruppe Von Stumpfeld (1 dec. 42)
1. 12. 42. 1830
An Heeresgruppe Don.

Aufgefangene und zusammengestellte verbände Gruppe Von Stumpfeld.

Bei Adam:
Teile 14. Pz. Div. -
Teile Werfer Rgt. 53. -
Pionier Schule der 6. Armee. -
Bautruppen des Kdrs. D. Bautruppen 14. -
Offz. Anwärter – Umschulungslehrgang AOK 6. -
Marsch Btl. St. Pölten. –
Urlauber genesene u. Versprengte der 6. Armee. –
Teile Pi. Rgt. 652. –
Bei Schmidt:
Teile Pz. Rgt. 36. –
3. u. 4. Flak 38. –
3. Flak 147 -
¾ 4. Flak 774. –
A Alarmkomp. Tschir. –
Teile Pz. Jg. 113. –
Teile Werkstatt Kp. 194. –
Teile Inst. Komp. 168. –
Teile Abschnittszug 750. –
u. Armee – Gerätepark 661.
1. u. 3. Feldzeugstab. –
1. Wach. Btl. 541. –
Pi. Rgt. Stab 520. –
Front Btl. 36 Estnische Schutzmannschaft. –
Urlauber u. Genesene. –
Bei Selle:
Teile Sonderstab Senger. –
Teile Nachschubführer 9. Flak. Div. –
Pi. Rgts.-Stab 605. –
Teile 24. Pz. Div. –
Bei Heilmann:
Teile 3. Inf. Div. Mot. –
Teile 60. Inf. Div. Mot. –

Gruppe Stabel: Noch keine Meldung, in der masse Flak und angehörige der Luftwaffe. –
Gruppe Spang:
1. Geschütz. II A. R. 54. -
4. u. 5. reserve Flk. Abtl. 145. –
Teile A. A. 44 I. D. = = = = =

Rum. AOK 3 Ia No. 61/42 Geheim ++++
Here battalions 354 IR 213 ID are not specified.
Absolutely precisely it is known - battalions of this regiment have held positions on the river Chir November, 27 1942.
Hence, the data the document not full concerning forces battle groups on the river Chir as of December, 1, 1942.
Except for 354 ID, in the list for group Shpang is absent, for example, 122-nd and 4-th security battalions.
In group Schmidt (or Gr. Stumpfeld) is not specified 525-th battalion and etc.

Apparently, here at set are not taken into account Forces OT, and as forces of service of a labour duty and to that similar units not concerning to OKH which here much were present.

For example, forces of 6-th railway regiment are not specified.
Last edited by Yuri on 23 May 2007, 21:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Yuri
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#204

Post by Yuri » 23 May 2007, 21:20

ATH wrote::)
Here is something to crunch for the statistic fanatics among us! There remains questions however. Is the Luftwaffe field divisions included? Do they only count German forces or Rumanian also? What do they mean by 384 ID when the document shows the situation as of 1 december when 384 was still in the Stalingrad pocket? Does that mean that Gruppe Adam and Heilmann are excluded? (BTW, the document has been produced on the 15 December 42 - H.Gr.Don Ia Nr. 283/42 geh.)

Well actually, it would have been useful to know what was included in the Pz.AOK.4 and Rum.AOK.3 numbers...
Oberkommando Heeresgruppe Don
Stand: 1.12.42.

Iststärken- und Fehlstellenmeldung.

------------------------------------------------------------------Iststärke
-----------------------------------------------Offz----------Bea---------Uffz-----------Mschft
Gr. Hollidt
Stab, Korps- und Heer-Tr.------------58------------24----------261-------------465
22.Pz.Div.-----------------------------------214----------93---------1288------------6058
294.I.D.--------------------------------------328-----------83---------2063-----------10050
62.I.D.----------------------------------------257-----------75---------1909------------8921

Pz.AOK.4----------------------------------638------------235--------3599-----------17912

Rum.AOK.3--------------------------------547-------------85---------2969-----------22210

AOK 6

Befh.H.G.Don------------------------------149-------------167--------842-------------1948

Pion.-Tr.-------------------------------------132-----------22------------901------------6092
Nachr.-Tr.------------------------------------90------------18------------404------------2263
Kart.u.Verm.Abt.(mot) 617------------12-------------2--------------37--------------128
A.Kart.St.521-------------------------------1------------------------------11---------------44
Kart.Lg.566--------------------------------------------------1---------------3----------------28
Führgs.Abt.Obkdo.H.Gr.---------------47-------------13------------53--------------188

-------------------------------------------------2473----------818---------14340----------76307

-----------------------------------------------------------------Fehlstellen
------------------------------------------------Offz--------------Uffz------------Mschft
Gr. Hollidt
Stab, Korps- und Heer-Tr.-------------16--------------21---------------110
22.Pz.Div.----------------------------------100-------------845-------------2049
294.I.D.---------------------------------------81-------------555-------------2680
62.I.D.----------------------------------------135------------612-------------2938

Pz.AOK.4------------------------------------95------------352--------------1455

Rum.AOK.3--------------------------------195-----------1119-------------5219

AOK 6

Befh.H.G.Don

Pion.-Tr.--------------------------------------60--------------72----------------821
Nachr.-Tr.------------------------------------19-------------127---------------198
Kart.u.Verm.Abt.(mot) 617--------------1---------------4------------------4
A.Kart.St.521--------------------------------1---------------1------------------10
Kart.Lg.566------------------------------------------------------------------------2
Führgs.Abt.Obkdo.H.Gr.

--------------------------------------------------703------------3708------------15486


Bemerkungen :
22.Pz.Div. ohne Pi.Btl.50
294. I.D. ohne Pi.Btl.294
Pz. AOK 4 ohne 6., 11., 23. Pz., 336. u. 384. I.D. u. versch.Heerestrupp. (siehe Anlage)
AOK 6 keine Meldung möglich
Befh.H.G.Don Fehlstellen können nicht gemeldet werden, da keine Sollstärken gekannt


Ferner können nicht gemeldet werden:
304. u. 306. I.D., 3.Geb.Div. Und 17. Pz.Div. Sowie O.Qu.-Abt. Mit allen unterstellten Versorgungs-, Sanitäts-, Veterinär- usw. -Einheite
The document is made backdating - made on December, 15 for position existing on December, 1.
Therefore to use this document it is necessary cautiously.
The real situation has differences.
For example, 22. Pz. Div as of December, 1, 1942 was part of 48-th Pz. Korp (the corps commander general Kramer).
It is well visible, that in structure of the group Hollidt Romanian both Italian units and ground units Luftwaffe are not taken into account.


However, not looking at presence of such errors, the data from this document allows to draw a conclusion on high reliability of data extracted by intelligence section of Soviet 5-th Tank Army concerning enemy forces on the river Chir.

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Qvist
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#205

Post by Qvist » 23 May 2007, 21:49

The document is made backdating - made on December, 15 for position existing on December, 1.
Therefore to use this document it is necessary cautiously.
It isn't "backdated - this is completely normal. I do not think I have ever seen a strength report for anything bigger than a division that refers to the same date as the document.
It is well visible, that in structure of the group Hollidt Romanian both Italian units and ground units Luftwaffe are not taken into account.

However, not looking at presence of such errors,
Well, errors and errors...This is an Iststärke-report, and allied formations are almost never included in such reports - it would have been most unusual if they were in this case. And 7. and 8.LW-FD was only in the process of arriving, not very surprising that they are not there either.


cheers

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Qvist
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#206

Post by Qvist » 23 May 2007, 22:30

Very interesting documents ATH.
Here is something to crunch for the statistic fanatics among us! There remains questions however. Is the Luftwaffe field divisions included?
Does not seem like it - and it would be a bit surprising if they were, as they were only arriving around that time.
Do they only count German forces or Rumanian also?
Clearly just German.
What do they mean by 384 ID when the document shows the situation as of 1 december when 384 was still in the Stalingrad pocket?


See further back in the thread - apparently the staff of 384.ID was flown up, and took control of various elements, including Genesene and Urlauber from the division.


PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject:
ATH wrote:
Another document that might be useful. Collected and organized units of Gruppe Von Stumpfeld (1 dec. 42)

Quote:
1. 12. 42. 1830
An Heeresgruppe Don.

Aufgefangene und zusammengestellte verbände Gruppe Von Stumpfeld.

Bei Adam:
Teile 14. Pz. Div. -
Teile Werfer Rgt. 53. -
Pionier Schule der 6. Armee. -
Bautruppen des Kdrs. D. Bautruppen 14. -
Offz. Anwärter – Umschulungslehrgang AOK 6. -
Marsch Btl. St. Pölten. –
Urlauber genesene u. Versprengte der 6. Armee. –
Teile Pi. Rgt. 652. –
Bei Schmidt:
Teile Pz. Rgt. 36. –
3. u. 4. Flak 38. –
3. Flak 147 -
¾ 4. Flak 774. –
A Alarmkomp. Tschir. –
Teile Pz. Jg. 113. –
Teile Werkstatt Kp. 194. –
Teile Inst. Komp. 168. –
Teile Abschnittszug 750. –
u. Armee – Gerätepark 661.
1. u. 3. Feldzeugstab. –
1. Wach. Btl. 541. –
Pi. Rgt. Stab 520. –
Front Btl. 36 Estnische Schutzmannschaft. –
Urlauber u. Genesene. –
Bei Selle:
Teile Sonderstab Senger. –
Teile Nachschubführer 9. Flak. Div. –
Pi. Rgts.-Stab 605. –
Teile 24. Pz. Div. –
Bei Heilmann:
Teile 3. Inf. Div. Mot. –
Teile 60. Inf. Div. Mot. –

Gruppe Stabel: Noch keine Meldung, in der masse Flak und angehörige der Luftwaffe. –
Gruppe Spang:
1. Geschütz. II A. R. 54. -
4. u. 5. reserve Flk. Abtl. 145. –
Teile A. A. 44 I. D. = = = = =

Rum. AOK 3 Ia No. 61/42 Geheim ++++
Here battalions 354 IR 213 ID are not specified.
No, but this report does not list all units of these commands - it just lists the elements formed from stragglers and ad-hoc units ("Aufgefangene und Zusammengestellte Verbände").

cheers

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Yuri
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#207

Post by Yuri » 24 May 2007, 00:43

Qvist wrote:
It is well visible, that in structure of the group Hollidt Romanian both Italian units and ground units Luftwaffe are not taken into account.

However, not looking at presence of such errors,
Well, errors and errors...This is an Iststärke-report, and allied formations are almost never included in such reports - it would have been most unusual if they were in this case. And 7. and 8.LW-FD was only in the process of arriving, not very surprising that they are not there either.
At me errors are not present.
In this case I did not mean Lw-FDs. Here I meant air-defence subdivisions working as an infantry, building battalions Luftwaffe, battalions of service of air stations and so on.

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#208

Post by Yuri » 24 May 2007, 00:57

So as of 1/12/42 we notice the following correlation of forces, which opposing sides have concentrated on a boundary of a watercourse Krivaja (Curve) and an average watercourse Chir.

F. 312, op. 4245, d. 10, Sheet
The report
About the battle structure 1-n Guard Army as of December, 1, 1942

14-th rifle corps

Management of corps and corps units
Number of staff 04/50

Average officers of arms - 145
Younger officers of arms - 128
Ordinary structure - 515
In total military men - 788

14-n a Guards rifle division
Number of staff 04/200

Average officers - 710
Younger officers – 1,095
Ordinary structure – 3,500
In total military men – 5,305

203-n a rifle division
Number of staff04/200

Average officers - 756
Younger officers – 1,077
Ordinary structure – 3,824
In total military men – 5,657

278-n a rifle division
Number of staff 04/200

Average officers - 881
Younger officers – 1,043
Ordinary structure – 2,943
In total military men – 4,367

Total on corps

Average officers – 2,492
Younger officers – 3,343
Ordinary structure – 10,782
In total military men – 16,617
=============
Total in rifle divisions of 14-th rifle corps was present for December, 1, 1942

Average officers of arms – 2,347
Younger officers of arms – 3,215
Ordinary structure – 10,267
In total military men - 15,829
Including the soldier and NCOs – 13,482

Number of 159-th RD before the beginning of operation Uranus (on 19/11) made 3,494 soldiers and NCOs
About number of 159-th RD as of the end of November gives representation the following report of the commander of this division - colonel Anashkin

TSAMO RF
f. 331, op. 5041, d. 13, l. 125
The opponent - Germans, - force up to an infantry regiment from region Bokovskaja [294 ID-Yuri] and up to a regiment from Fomin [62 ID-Yuri] during yesterday's and today counterattack the right flank of a division.
Attacks of the opponent are beaten off. I hold back the center Dulinskij. Further on the river Chir Krasnokutskaja. People very little, last reserve - has thrown a platoon of investigation. In 491-st and 558-th RR remained on one hundred riflemens. If it is possible, I ask to throw machines of 5 various ammunition and urgently to send 2 divisionals RS [' Katjusha " - Yuri] which attached to me it agrees the preliminary order * 0031 and as soon as possible to replace left-wing 631-st RR.

The commander of 159-th rifle division
The colonel /Anashkin/
Updatings did not receive the Soviet divisions.

Number 50 GRD (former 124RD) on 19/11 - 5,173 soldiers and NCOs.
Number 47 GRD on 1/12 - 4,141 soldiers and NCOs.

TSAMO RF
f. 331, op. 5041, d. 24, l. 302
The operative report * 37 Army headquarters 47 GRD 13.00 2/12/42
...
4. As of 1/12/4247 GRD has: average commanding structure 759; younger commanding - 917; ordinary structure 3,224. Total 4,910, including:
473 RR - 953 person
510 RR - 1,290 person.
437 RR - 668 - "-
Number 346 RD on 19/11 – 8,234 soldiers and NCOs

On a boundary of the river Krivaja ( Curve) and average Chir against seven Russian divisions (278, 203, 14G, 159, 50G, 47G, 346 ID) nine divisions of the opponent operated, namely:
- One Italian division "Sforzeska";
- Five Romanian divisions - 7, 9, 11, new 14 ID and 1 MD
- Three German divisions - 62, 294 ID and 22Pz.D

In all these seven Russian divisions was present on December, 1 no more than:

13,482 + 3,494 + 5,173 + 4,141 + 8,234 = 34,524 soldiers and NCOs.
Actually, as we well understand, number did not exceed these 30,000 person.

On the other hand only in three German divisions (62, 294 ID and 22Pz.D) there were 30,289 soldiers and NCOs.
There is no doubt that in six other divisions there was not a smaller number of soldiers and and NCOs.
Thus on a boundary of the river the Curve the two-multiple superiority in strength of Germans and their European allies took place.
Apparently, stories of German generals about ocean of hordes Russian in a reality do not find acknowledgement.
In practice took place opposite, that is, actually the ocean of western hordes was rolled by huge waves on not numerous Russian divisions.
Last edited by Yuri on 24 May 2007, 08:41, edited 1 time in total.

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#209

Post by Yuri » 24 May 2007, 08:33

Should make the apologies.
Yesterday, in the previous post, at enumeration of divisions German Wermacht and his European allies working on the river Krivaja (Curve), I have missed one the cavalry division -romanian 7th Cav Div.
Thus, the size of a western horde on the river Krivaja (Curve) and an average watercourse Chir is necessary for increasing by one division.
Hence, total number of divisions of a western horde on a boundary of the river the Krivaja (Curve) will be equal 10.
If we shall take into account forces of the various battle groups working on this site of front there will be no error if we shall tell, that forces of opponents of units of Red Army were three times more.

P.S.
All data on a number of personnel of divisions of Red Army are taken by me directly from archival documents which were not published anywhere earlier.

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#210

Post by Qvist » 24 May 2007, 12:03

Very interesting to be able to compare actual strength reports for each side.

Some questions however on the soviet strengths.

1) What sort of strength is this? Bayonets? Ration?
2) What a very strange distribution between men and officers (including, I presume, NCOs) - it looks like the Soviet divisions have roughly one officer/NCO for every two men !?

cheers

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