Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

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FORBIN Yves
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Re:

Post by FORBIN Yves » 17 Oct 2017 10:44

I search how many tanks have the 11th Pz the total when she arrrived the 07/12

I have see but operationnal tanks not the total
In Panzertruppen Vol 2 they have all number of tanks operationnals for Ps/ID Mot to 19/11/42

11 Pz : 78 : 6 Pz IV 75L + 49 Pz III 50L + 9 Pz III 50k + 11 Pz II + 3 Pz Command

If one have the total please


Yuri wrote:Chir River Battles
Dec 4-22 1942
Orders of Battle: German and Soviet
by Russel H.S. Stolfi

Chir River Battles (4-22 December 1942)

German 11th Panzer Division (Generalleutnant Hermann Balck)
15th Panzer Regiment
110th Panzer Grenadier Regt
111th Panzer Grenadier Regt
231st Antitank Battalion
61st Motorcycle Battalion
119th Panzer Artillery Regt
231st Panzer Recon Battalion
231st Panzer Engr Battalion
231st Panzer Signal Battalion

TO&E Strength Nov 42: Approx 14,000 men, 104 tanks
Actual Strength Nov 42: Approx 11,500 men, 75 tanks
German 7th Luftwaffe Field Division (After approx 9 Dec 42)

Sources: Mitcham, Hitler's Legions, pp. 230,362,430, and Ziemke, Defeat in the East, p. 506. Actual strengths estimated by author.

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Yuri
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Re: Re:

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2017 19:12

FORBIN Yves wrote:I search how many tanks have the 11th Pz the total when she arrrived the 07/12

I have see but operationnal tanks not the total
In Panzertruppen Vol 2 they have all number of tanks operationnals for Ps/ID Mot to 19/11/42

11 Pz : 78 : 6 Pz IV 75L + 49 Pz III 50L + 9 Pz III 50k + 11 Pz II + 3 Pz Command

If one have the total please
7 December is 75th anniversary of the battle for sovkhoz 79 (state farm "Red Star").
Pz11_1a_42-11-20_0(T315_594-00624)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_T315_594-00635(e-1920).jpg
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2017 19:14

Pz11_KTB_OoB_42-11-01_1(T315_594-00625)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_OoB_42-11-01_2(T315_594-00626)(e-1920).jpg
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2017 19:15

Pz11_1a_42-11-21_p01-02(T315_594-00627)(e).jpg
Pz11_1a_42-11-21_p03(T315_594-00629)(e-1080).jpg
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2017 19:27

1942-11-21
AG Mitte AOK4 Pz11 in Roslawl
42-11-21 AG Mitte AOK4 Pz11 _Roslawl.jpg
KTB Pz11 December 42
Pz11_KTB_p035-036(T315_594-00542)(e-1920).jpg
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Last edited by Yuri on 02 Dec 2017 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2017 19:41

Pz11_42-11-25_Balck_Millerowo.jpg
Pz 11 in Millerowo
1942-11-27 Chir Front
Gr.Hollidt_XXXXVIIIPzK_AOK3(rum)_Gr.Spang_Gr.Stahel_Gr.Schtumpfeld
42-11-27 AG Don Chir_Front GrHollidt_XXXXVIII_PzK.jpg
On this map the position of the German groups on the lower Chir (Oblivskaya-Surovikino-Nizhne-Chirskaya) shows is no correct
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2017 20:19

Pz11_KTB_p037-038(T315_594-00543)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p039-040(T315_594-00545)(e-1920).jpg
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Art
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 03 Dec 2017 09:01

So we've got:
In tank companies 73 Pz-III and 10 Pz-IV
In HQs of tank battalions and the tank regiment: 4 radio (command) tanks, 21 Pz-II (?), 18 (9) Pz-III
What do numbers in parenthesis stand for?

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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 04 Dec 2017 01:55

Art wrote:So we've got:
In tank companies 73 Pz-III and 10 Pz-IV
In HQs of tank battalions and the tank regiment: 4 radio (command) tanks, 21 Pz-II (?), 18 (9) Pz-III
What do numbers in parenthesis stand for?
Not sure, but if looking ahead to look Pazerlage on 13.12.42 the 11th PzD there were:
Pz III long - 30 and Pz III kurz - 7.
Perhaps in parentheses is the number - Pz III kurz,
and without brackets is the number of tanks Pz III - total.
Pz.AOK.4.WЖchen.StДrke - A-Correct.jpg
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Art
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 04 Dec 2017 20:06

Wasn't one tank battalion left with the Army Group Center? That's the same Gliederung as posted above but from files of Romanian 3 Army/Armeeabteilung Hollidt:
Image

Also this tank battalion on situation map from 24.11.42:
Image

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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 05 Dec 2017 07:40

Hi, Art,
a little patience,
I will introduce Meldung without regard to I./Pz.Rg.15.
Meldung on 01.12.1942 was made only 21.12.1942

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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 Dec 2017 18:10

Until December 2, 1942 48PzK (22PzD; rum1MD; rum7KD) on average Chir.
2-Dec-42 ChirFront.jpg
4 Dec staff 48PzK moved to lower Chir in Nizhne-Chirskaya.
3-Dec-42 ChirFront.jpg
4-Dec-42 ChirFront.jpg
The combat strength of 48PzK - 11PzD; Gr. ADAM; Gr. Heilmann.
42-12-04 48PzK_Gliederung_1200.jpg
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 Dec 2017 18:22

HG Don Gliederung 3-Dec-42
42-12-03 HG_Don_Gliederung (I_0463).jpg
Alarm Btl 3A(rum)
42-12-03 AOK3(rum)_Alarm_Btl_Gliederung (l_0460.jpg
42-12-03 AOK3(rum)_Alarm_Btl_Gliederung1 (l_0460.jpg
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 Dec 2017 18:39

42-12-05 HG_Don_Gliederung_HeeresTruppen(l_0444).jpg
42-12-05 HG_Don_Gliederung_HeeresTruppen1(l_0445).jpg
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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 Dec 2017 19:02

Gr Stumpfeld
GrStumpfeld_Gliederung_3-12-42-1Teil.jpg
GrStumpfeld_Gliederung_3-12-42-2Teil2.jpg
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