Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

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FORBIN Yves
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Re: Re:

Post by FORBIN Yves » 25 Feb 2018 16:48

Yuri wrote:
FORBIN Yves wrote:I search how many tanks have the 11th Pz the total when she arrrived the 07/12

I have see but operationnal tanks not the total
In Panzertruppen Vol 2 they have all number of tanks operationnals for Ps/ID Mot to 19/11/42

11 Pz : 78 : 6 Pz IV 75L + 49 Pz III 50L + 9 Pz III 50k + 11 Pz II + 3 Pz Command

If one have the total please
7 December is 75th anniversary of the battle for sovkhoz 79 (state farm "Red Star").

Pz11_1a_42-11-20_0(T315_594-00624)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_T315_594-00635(e-1920).jpg
Thank you great !
In your files "X" means Pz IV and "Y" Pz III ?

11th Pz had fight amazing during this battle ( finish month with about 10 combat ready tanks ) and thinking full as 6th Pz but this one completely re completed have 140 Pz ! the 11th in reserve so different 78 i have 14000 soldiers.
A Pz with about 100 Pz/Stug been considered in good condition

MitteG
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by MitteG » 06 Apr 2018 18:33

Hi all! I have followed this topic with great interest, some really heavy work of you guys!

Does anyone knows where to find a good topographic map of the area (W: Chuvilevskij, E: Nizhe-Chirskaja, N: Surovikino, S: Verkh.Solonovskij)? A scale of 1:50 000 or 1:100 000 would be great!

Thanks in advance
MG

Art
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 06 Apr 2018 19:58

You can find many Soviet situation maps online. For example (situation of the 5 Shock Army in the second half of December):
https://vnr.github.io/wwii-maps/index.h ... 000002.jpg

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henryk
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by henryk » 06 Apr 2018 20:08

How does one search for a situation map in a selected area?

Art
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 06 Apr 2018 21:37

The best way is to search for maps relating to specific commands within a specific timeframe. For example 5 Tank Army or 5 Shock Army. Or search in an archive section relating to these commands. See a topic here:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=226630

MitteG
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by MitteG » 07 Apr 2018 08:50

Thanks Art, very helpful!

I'm about to start a project to design a game on the Chir River Battles - Dec 1942, so the info here and your knowledge is invaluable! I've been interested in this battle since I first played the game 48th Panzer Korps by Jim Zoldiak years ago. A very interesting battle and a kind of "ghost-feeling" (literally) over it.

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henryk
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by henryk » 07 Apr 2018 18:45

Thank you, Art

MitteG
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by MitteG » 08 Apr 2018 16:08

I've studied some maps for the area, what is exactly a "Balka", is it the same as a ravine?

Dann Falk
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 08 Apr 2018 16:44

Yes...a large dry ravine. But during storms it can turn into a raging river. Balkas are normally wide and deep, wide enough to drive vehicles along the bottom, but they also make good AT ditches. The problem is crossing them, which might require the use of engineers.

MitteG
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by MitteG » 08 Apr 2018 17:31

Aha... Thank you very much Dann! So similar a large "wadi" found in desert areas. I studied some photos that Yuri posted from the area, very open indeed in these steppes! Fascinating...

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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 10 Apr 2018 11:20

MitteG wrote:I've studied some maps for the area, what is exactly a "Balka", is it the same as a ravine?
"Ovrag" (rus.) - Ravine-steep slopes, no turf on the bottom and slopes. Passage for vehicles (including tanks) it is impossible, for people is difficult.
"Balka" (rus.) - is a "ovrag" (ravine), but on the bottom and slopes grows turf. Passage for cars (tanks) is possible only in some places.
"Dol" or "Log" (rus.) - is a "balka" (rus.) with gentle slopes. The passage for the tanks and vehicles is difficult, but possible.

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Yuri
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Re: Re:

Post by Yuri » 10 Apr 2018 11:30

FORBIN Yves wrote: In your files "X" means Pz IV and "Y" Pz III ?
Yes

Dann Falk
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 10 Apr 2018 15:59

Yes MitteG...very much like wadis in North Africa. On the open and flat steppes Balkas also provide a place to hide, locate hospitals, HQ, supply dumps and so on.

Dann Falk
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 10 Apr 2018 16:03

Good info Yuri...Thanks

So there are three different types of ravines, Ovrag, Balka, Dol or Log. Interesting.

MitteG
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by MitteG » 11 Apr 2018 08:53

Very nice Yuri!

I agree with Dann, very interesting terrain types!

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