Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

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Yuri
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 May 2018 15:41

Dann Falk wrote: So there are three different types of ravines, Ovrag, Balka, Dol or Log. Interesting.
For completeness, we describe another type of ravine-Yar (Яр).
We have two varieties of Yar (Яр).
First variant Yar - a Ovrag with a wide bottom.
Yar(Яр).JPG
The locals call this Yar.
However, in my opinion this is any more not a Ovrag, but not yet Yar.

Second variant Yar - is tall and steep (almost vertical) the bank of river.
KrasnyYar_River_Medveditsa.jpg
This Yar on the Medveditsa river (left tributary of Don), here in November 1942 before the Uranium operation, was hidden the tank corps of 5th Tank Army.

We can say with good reason that the bank of Chir river, where was the position of battle group Selle and on the other hand 1120 Rifle Regiment 333-th RD is Yar (see my photos earlier).
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 08 May 2018 16:16

Very nice...you have photos of the Lower Chir River? Somewhere east (down stream) of Surovikino and the Liska River? I know the Don river flooded this section of the Chir.

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 May 2018 16:47

Dann Falk wrote:Very nice...you have photos of the Lower Chir River? Somewhere east (down stream) of Surovikino and the Liska River? I know the Don river flooded this section of the Chir.
Yes, such photos there is. The part I have already shown. There are photos of rivers Liska and Dobraya

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 May 2018 16:55

Shashka - is a special kind of sabre.
Sabel_schaschka.jpg
The steppe is fraught with danger, - As the wild West is nothing without Colt, - so in the steppe it is impossible without shashka. The ability to own a shashka is a vital necessity.
So if You are a morning stroll along the bank Chir, you can see a picture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU_tSptVehU

However, such a picture you can see in the steppe anywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fu5pCSH38
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 May 2018 17:58

Some thoughts on the 9th LwFD, or rather on the units thus marked in the Soviet and in some German documents as well as reported by German prisoners of war.
1. The original mission for 336 ID
42-11-27 336ID_Mission.jpg
2. The message for transmission to 1,200 soldiers of Luftwaffe in 336 ID.
42-11-27 336ID LwSoldaten.jpg
3. 7LwFD arrive
42-11-29 7LwFD_Arrive.jpg
4. Cancellation of the order to transfer 1,200 Luftwaffe's soldiers to the infantry division.
42-11-30 336ID LwSoldaten_Nicht.jpg
Comparing German and Soviet documents concerning the 9th LwFD and the 9th motorized group, I am inclined to the fact that just of these 1,200 soldiers, which were originally intended for transfer to 336 ID, a motrized combat group was formed, subordinated to the command of the 9th anti-Aircraft division. With high probability, ruled this infantry group headquarters 7th LwFD.
Justification of this assumption further.
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 08 May 2018 18:46

I found the photos of the Chir (page 16)...wider and deeper than I thought it would be.

Also nice sabre dance.

Thanks

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 08 May 2018 20:05

Dann Falk wrote:I found the photos of the Chir (page 16)...wider and deeper than I thought it would be.
Well. Good. Several photos of the Liska river.
River_Liska_Floodplain.jpg
River_Liska_Old_Bridge_Supports.jpg
River_Liska_New_Bridge.jpg
River_Liska_West_Bank1.jpg
River_Liska_West_Bank_View_From_West_to_Ost.jpg
Other photos are large, they need to be prepared to place here.
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 09 May 2018 03:46

Ahhhh....Yes. This is what I was thinking. This size river fits in with the larger Chir River. Militarily, the Liska is more like a wet AT Ditch. But does it freeze solid during the winter?

Much thanks for the photos. This area looks very much like the central US, with a flat rolling landscape and grass as far as you can see.

Dann

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 09 May 2018 09:15

Dann Falk wrote:But does it freeze solid during the winter?
Dann
Yes, it's freezing and serious.
On page 17 (23 Jul 2011 00:13) I gave a link to a video which shows how in January 2011, raised from the Dobraya river the tank T-34 which sunk in December 1942. Unfortunately video is already deleted.
There you can see the thickness of the ice on the Dobraya river, then the Liska river will be similar.

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 10 May 2018 16:39

The boundaries of area Gr. Stahel, date and the reason for appearance of the battle group of colonel Selle.
42-11-30 Oberst Kortner gefallen Obers Selle.jpg
Bridge on the river Chir at Oblivskaya.
Oblivskaya_Bridge.jpg
View in direction South-West
Oblivskaya_View_direct_S(and)SW.jpg
To South-West from Oblivskaya steppe is flat as a table. Here up to July 1942 were the airfield of long-range aircraft RKKA and to December 1942 here Luftwaffe's airfield. In their memoirs known pilot Yu-87 (Shtuka) Rudel reports that in November-December 42 he was on this airfield. Rudel mentions Surovikino and Nizhne-Chirskaya. Therefore Rudel party battle for Sovkhoz Red Star (state farm no 79)

In other direction from Oblivskaya (in the direction to the North and northeast) the district rough-there are a lot of small Balka (Log).
Oblivskay_Frolov_Log.jpg
River Beresovaya - natural wet anti-tank ditch (as the river Liska).
Oblivskaya_Frolov_River_Berezovaya.jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 10 May 2018 17:20

Another useful document
42-12-01 HG_Don_Meldung1-2.jpg
42-12-01 HG_Don_Meldung3-4.jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Dann Falk » 10 May 2018 19:18

Thanks Yuri for another set of photos and comments!

Dann

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 11 May 2018 13:06

7LwFD losses
42-12-13 7LwFD Losses_.jpg
11PzD OoB 42-12-01
Pz11_Mel_42-12-21(T315_594-00631).jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 11 May 2018 13:11

11PzD KTB from 07-Dec-42 to ....
Pz11_KTB_p039-040(T315_594-00545)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p041-042(T315_594-00547)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p043-044(T315_594-00549)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p045-046(T315_594-00551)(e-1920).jpg
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Last edited by Yuri on 11 May 2018 13:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 11 May 2018 13:17

Pz11 KTB ... to 09-Dec-42
Pz11_KTB_p047-048(T315_594-00553)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p049-050(T315_594-00555)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p051-052(T315_594-00557)(e-1920).jpg
Pz11_KTB_p053-054(T315_594-00559)(e-1920).jpg
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