Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 26 Nov 2023 17:42

In the daily situation report the XXXXVIII Corps claimed 39 Soviet tanks destroyed by the 11 Pz. Division and 15 - by the 336 Infantry Division on 8.12.42.

In the 336 Division 11 tanks were knocked out by the divisional anti-tank battalion and 4 by Luftwaffe anti-aicraft guns "before the noon" (how many after is not specified) - from the divisional war diary.

Claims of the 11 Pz. Division are presented in the table attached:
0147.jpg
Of 28 tanks claimed by the 15 Pz. Regiment, 1 was KV-type, 14 T-34 and 13 T-60. Types claimed by other units were not specified.
"Effective" (as they were described) aerial attacks were launched by the Luftwaffe during the day, but results were not reported by the ground troops.

In the daily intelligence summary of 9 December 1942 the staff of the 3 Romanian Army reported 228 POWs captured, 55 tanks, 4 artillery guns, 8 anti-tank guns with 1 limber, 2 rocket launchers, 6 machine guns, 7 anti-tank rifles, 3 machine pistols and 1 tractor destroyed or captured. Apparently these numbers pertained to 8 December and the bulk of these losses were inflicted in the area of the State Farm 79 - Hill 161.
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 29 Nov 2023 02:43

As I have repeatedly written, the description of events in the KTB very rarely correspond to the actual circumstances.
This case is a vivid confirmation of this rule.
We are looking.
This is a map from the KTB of the German 336 Infantry division, which indicates the deployment of its units before the attack on the bridgehead in the Golovsky-Ostrovsky-Sulatsky-Savinsky area.
336ID(sitmap)(6_12).jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 29 Nov 2023 02:46

This is an overlay of the combat map of the Soviet 333 SD on the 336.ID map.
42-12-07 Lage morgen.jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 29 Nov 2023 02:47

This is a view from space.
42-12-07 Lage morgen(Sp).jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 29 Nov 2023 03:03

According to the scheme from the KTB of 336.ID, Soviet tanks broke through in the band of the 7th Lw.Fld.Div., between the beam Ostrov (beam with number 3 on my diagram) and the beam Skripnika (beam number 4).
336ID(sitmap)(7-12).jpg
This is a lie and a conscious lie.
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 01 Dec 2023 07:07

What were the actual Soviet tank losses?

The most straightforward is the situation with 159 and 216 Tank Brigades.

According to the sit. report of the 159 Tank Brigade while attacking on 8 December 1942 it lost 2 T-34 tanks (1 irrevocable loss) and 9 T-70 tanks (4 irrevocable losses).
2 T-34 and 2 T-70 remained operational by early morning of 9 December
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=450661937
The Corps after-action report repeats the same numbers essentially. All those losses must correspond to the claims of the 336 Infantry Division

216 Tank Brigade accordign to the after-action report on 8 December lost 2 KV tanks near the State Farm 79 and further 2 T-70 somewhere to the east of it. Those 2 KV were apparently the same tanks as were claimed by IV (Flak) Battalion of the 119 Pz. Artillery Regiments. In addition 1 KV tank was knocked out on 7 December and apparently remained on the battlefield regained by the German counterattack. This tank quite probably the one KV tank claimed by the 15 Pz. Regiment on 8 December

89 Tank Brigade had 11 T-34, 7 T-70 and 7 T-60 operational at the evening of 6 December:
viewtopic.php?p=1027367#p1027367
Brigade's losses according to the Corps' after-action report were 6 T-34, 2 T-70 and 3 T-60 lost irrevocably and 1 T-34 damaged. The same numbers essentially are given in the brigade's war diary and after-action report, which add that of them one T-34 was lost on 7 December. According to the corps report 4 T-34, 1 T-70 and 1 T-60 remained operational on 9.12. It's not clear what happened to several light tanks.

117 Tank Brigade had 19 T-34 and 9 T-70 on the evening of 6 December. 2 T-34 were lost on 6 December (it is not clear if they were counted among those 19). According to the brigade's war diary 5 T-34 and 2 T-70 remained operational on 9 December. That indicates a loss of some 20 tanks. At the same time the corps after-action report quotes only 1 T-34 and 1 T-70 operational in the 117 Tk Bde on 9.12. Naturally there is a question of accuracy and compleeness of these numbers. In any case it seems that the 117 Tk Bde suffered the largest losses of all (that applies to personnel casualties as well).

The bottom line is that the 1 Tank Corps mostly lost its offensive potential after the battle of 8 December and was left with a limited nmber of tanks.

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2023 20:32

Art wrote:
01 Dec 2023 07:07
What were the actual Soviet tank losses?

...
117 Tank Brigade had 19 T-34 and 9 T-70 on the evening of 6 December. 2 T-34 were lost on 6 December (it is not clear if they were counted among those 19). According to the brigade's war diary 5 T-34 and 2 T-70 remained operational on 9 December. That indicates a loss of some 20 tanks. At the same time the corps after-action report quotes only 1 T-34 and 1 T-70 operational in the 117 Tk Bde on 9.12. Naturally there is a question of accuracy and compleeness of these numbers. In any case it seems that the 117 Tk Bde suffered the largest losses of all (that applies to personnel casualties as well).

The bottom line is that the 1 Tank Corps mostly lost its offensive potential after the battle of 8 December and was left with a limited nmber of tanks.
The bottom line is that this method of calculating tank losses, as a rule, gives an error.

The 1st Tank Corps lost its offensive potential in the form of motorized infantry even before the start of the battle for state farm No. 79.
Tank losses in the battle for state farm No. 79 on December 8, 1942 were relatively small.
TsAMO RF (331-5041-24 l.67)
Operational summary No.0206
by 18.00 on 7.12.42
Headquarters of the 1st TC,
southern outskirts of SVIRIDOVSKY

1. The enemy, under the blows of our units, resisting stubbornly, retreated in a southerly direction. During the day, he repeatedly launched counterattacks with up to 2 battalions supported by tanks, which were repulsed with heavy losses for him.

2. At 9:00 on 7.12.42, the 1st TC attacked with all brigades, broke through the front and the brigades began to carry out their tasks.

89th TBr - fulfilling the task, by 15:00 on 7.12.42 it had captured the height of 156.0, but due to the lack of infantry to fill positions, the brigade was withdrawn to an area 2 km south-east of the 157.8 mark, where it is replenished with ammunition and fuel.
Losses during the day: the cannon of the T-34 tank was shot down.
5 people were killed, 11 were injured
Trophies - captured: a horse-drawn convoy with ammunition and fodder in 80 carts, -15 cars, -4 radio stations, -100 shells, two batteries of 75 mm cannons, large-caliber guns -5, AT guns -6, machine guns -24, telephones -30.
Destroyed: -Bunkers -6 and up to 600 enemy soldiers and officers.

The 117th TBr, advancing towards the height of 155.0, reached the MTF area by 15:00 on 7.12.42, but for the same reasons was withdrawn to the area 2 km south-east of the 157.8 mark, where it concentrated by 18:00.
In service: T-34 -20, T-70 -11
In the current repair: T-34 =4, T-70 =2

Security: ammunition -1.5 bk.
Fuel and lubricants - 2 refills
Food for 9 days

The 159th TBr made a march from the Novomaksimovsky district
In the formation of T-34 tanks = 4, T-70 = 11, AT guns = 2
Active bayonets = 37.
Availability: Ammunition - 76 mm shells = 1418 pcs.
45 mm shells =710 pieces.
Rifle cartridges =107,500.
Fuel and lubricants: - diesel fuel - 34000 kg
KB-70 3400 kg
Gasoline 4000 kg
Food for 3 days.

The 216th TBr, fulfilling its task, captured State FARM No. 79 /SYSOIKIN/ by 15:00.

During the day, the 44th MSBr occupied the former line along the southern slopes of height 161 (600 m south of the 161 mark), repelled repeated enemy attacks, causing great damage to it.

3. During the day, enemy aircraft in groups of 14 to 40 aircraft continuously bombed and shelled the battle formations of our units.

4. Neighbors - on the right, the 333rd SD reached the line of 122.1, mark 129.0.
On the left, the 6th CD repelled repeated enemy counterattacks in the direction of the Derbentsev beam.

5. The weather is cloudy. The roads are passable

6. Communication with headquarters 5 TA - radio, communications officer

Chief of Staff of the 1st TC
Colonel / Kharchevnikov/

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2023 20:34

TsAMO RF (331-5041-24 l.71)
Operational summary No. 0207
by 18.00
on 8.12.42
Headquarters of the 1st TC
southern outskirts SVIRIDOVSKY

1. During the day, the enemy provided stubborn resistance to the offensive of our units at the turn of the heights 129.0, 155.0, 156.0, LISINSKY.
At the same time, a force of up to 50 tanks with 40 vehicles with infantry counterattacked our units from the direction of heights 160.3 and by the end of the day occupied heights 129.0, 155.0 and State Farm No. 79 /SYSOIKIN/.

2. Units of the First TC fought a stubborn offensive battle during the day, fulfilling the previously set task and repelled repeated enemy counterattacks.

The 89th TBr from 8:00 was fighting on the southern slopes of the height 161 3 km south of the mark 161, having the task to connect with 44 MSBr for joint action.
Losses for the period from 17.00 on 7.12.42 to 14:00 on 8.12.42 killed = 17, wounded = 36 people.
On the day of the battle, the brigade has trophies:
Destroyed: up to 200 soldiers and officers, guns = 3, machine guns = 4, wheeled vehicles = 5.

The 117th TBr attacked the enemy from an area of 3 km from 8:00. northeast of State farm No. 79 in the direction of the height 157.8. At 16:00, together with 89 TBr, attacked enemy tanks in the direction of the Field Camp, which is 3 km to the north is STATE FARM No. 79.
There is no information about the results and location of the brigade.
Personnel losses on the day of the battle: 7.12.42 killed = 22 people, wounded = 46 people.
Material losses: T-34 tanks = 3, of which two tanks were shot down and one burned down, in addition, two T-34 tanks are stuck and require evacuation. Damaged T-70 tanks = 4 pcs.
As a result of the battle, damage was inflicted on the enemy:
Guns = 18, machine guns = 16, up to 300 vehicles / including captured ones/.
Destroyed: up to 1,000 soldiers and officers and scattered 6 battalions of enemy infantry.
Captured: guns = 21, of which 50 mm = 8 pcs., 75 mm = 11 pcs., 37mm = 2 pcs., light machine guns = 36, submachine guns and rifles up to 1000 pcs.
Motorcycles =30, kitchens =5, horses with carts =186
In the battle with enemy tanks, 3 tanks were burned and 8 enemy tanks were shot down.

At 8:00 am, the 159th TBr attacked the enemy in the direction of the southeastern slopes, height 161, height 156.0, Derbentsev beam.
In service: T-34 = 2 tanks, T-70 = 1. AT guns 76 mm = 2, 45 mm = 2.
During the day of the battle, the brigade lost: T-34 = 2, one of them irretrievably, T-70 = 9, of which 4 were irretrievably burned.
Killed: commanding officers = 1 person, junior commanding officers and enlisted personnel = 4 people.
Wounded: senior staff = 5 people, junior commander and private = 6 people.
Missing =7 people.
Trophies: up to 2 companies of the officer regiment were destroyed, AT guns = 9, heavy machine guns = 7, hand and machine guns up to 50 pcs., cars = 8, heavy tanks = 1, medium tanks = 3.

The 216th TBr with one battalion repelled the attack of enemy tanks from the direction of height 155.0 on the state farm No. 79, in order to clear the road to OSTROVSKY, the second battalion covered state FARM No. 79 from the west.

The 44th MSBr continues to hold the height of 161 during the day, hold its positions and advanced in a southerly direction by 400-500 m.
In the ranks of active bayonets = 80, submachine gunners = 80, in the company of submachine guns = 42
Availability of weapons .......
Losses for 7.12.42 Killed = 7 people, wounded = 47 people. For 8.12.42 Killed = 7, wounded = 17, two of them are average commanders.
One ZIS-5 truck with groceries and a kitchen were smashed.
Trophies: 30 rifles, 8 machine guns.
Destroyed: up to 200 enemy soldiers and officers. Two enemy aircraft "MESSERSCHMITT 110" were shot down.

3. Enemy aircraft continuously bombed and shelled the formations of our units during the day in groups of bomber aircraft up to 30 units.

4. Neighbors -The 333rd SD continued to hold the line mark 122.1 eastern slopes of height 129.0 and 1 km to the east.
On the left, the 6th Guards CD continues to hold the line along the southeastern slopes of height 106.6.

5. The weather is clear. The roads are passable

Chief of Staff of the 1st TC
Colonel / Kharchevnikov/
Head of the Operational Department of the 1st TC
Guards Major / Likhoshvai/

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 02 Dec 2023 20:35

42-12-20 117 TBr Losses.jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Art » 03 Dec 2023 14:02

Thanks for sharing it, I haven't seen these reports before.
Yuri wrote:
02 Dec 2023 20:32
Personnel losses on the day of the battle: 7.12.42 killed = 22 people, wounded = 46 people.
Material losses: T-34 tanks = 3, of which two tanks were shot down and one burned down, in addition, two T-34 tanks are stuck and require evacuation. Damaged T-70 tanks = 4 pcs.
Does it mean that tank losses are given for the day of 7 December as well?

Also the corps report admitted that detailed information on situation of the 117 Tank Brigade was absent (the brigade was separated from the corps HQ by that moment), it was impossible to have accurate info on losses that early. The same most probably applies to the 89 and 216 Brigades. Don't you have reports giving the tank strength on 9 or 10 December ?
The 1st Tank Corps lost its offensive potential in the form of motorized infantry even before the start of the battle for state farm No. 79.
Still it could smash improvised defenses with a mass of tanks on 7 December. It became impossible two days later.

Worth to add that the South-West Front's command reported to Stalin on 9 December 1942 that the 1 Tank Corps lost in two days of battle 39 tanks, additional 2 tanks were lost by the 8 Guards Tank Brigade (on 9.12, I guess):
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=132352598

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 04 Dec 2023 20:12

TsAMO RF (331-5041-24 l.69)
Operational summary No.0208
by 6:00 on 9.12.1942
The headquarters of 1TK southern outskirts of SVIRIDOVSKY
...
2. During the night, units of 1 TC attacked the enemy in the direction of heights 155.0, 156.0 by the morning of 9.12.42 they concentrated:
89 TBr - in the SVIRIDOVSKY district
117 TBr - in the OSTROVSKY district
159 TBr - in the OSTROVSKY district
216 TBr - in the OSTROVSKY district
______in the ranks of tanks KV = 3, T-34 = 1, T-70 = 2
44 MSBr - continues to hold positions occupied along the southern slopes of height 161, 800 m south of mark 161.

307 OGMD - does not have a single combat installation in service.
Losses on the day of the battle on 8.12.42. one combat installation was blown up at the threat of capture by the enemy, combat installations were shot down = 3
4 combat installations should be out of repair.


Chief of Staff of the 1st TC
Colonel /Kharchevnikov/
Head of the Operational Department of the 1st TC
captain / Chumakov/
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 04 Dec 2023 20:18

Sorry for the style, but I will write the answer in Russian so that the online translator makes an adequate translation. I hope the essence of the problem with counting tanks on December 7-10 will be clear.

I rewrote this document in 2000, and the report of the commander of the 216 TBr, Lt. Colonel Kozhanov, dated 01:30 on December 9, I discovered and rewrote in 2005.
It is possible that the number of KV tanks = 3 is indicated by me incorrectly. The number 8 is poorly printed in the document, which I took for the number 3. When in 2000 I rewrote the operational summary No. 0208, I did not know about the existence of the Kozhanov report, and, of course, I could not compare Kozhanov's figures with the figures of the 1st TC headquarters.
Counting tanks for December 7-10 according to operational reports is practically impossible for the following reasons.
216 TBr belonged to the 26th TC. According to the state, it had KV = 24, T-34 = 4, T-70 = 27.
On November 19, this brigade operated in isolation from its corps. It was used as tanks to break through the defense at the 119SD site. Then the 216th TBr operated in the Bolshaya and Malaya Donshchinka area until November 25 against the 1st TD (Romanians) and the 22nd TD (Germans).
On November 25, the Southwestern Front headquarters received an order to send the 216th TBr to Kalach by the 26th TC. However, Lt. General Romanenko petitioned to leave this brigade for action against the XVII Army Corps (Hollidt). There were also the 8th motorcycle regiment of Lieutenant Colonel Belik and a tank company (10 tanks) of the 117th TBr. This tank company had no losses during the raid on the enemy's rear and actions against the Hollidt group.
On December 5, an order was once again received to send Kozhanov's brigade to his corps and the brigade headed to Perelazovsky, where the mobile repair shops (PRM) of the 26th TC were located. However, Lt.General Romanenko again petitioned for the use of Kozhanov's brigade in the area of the lower reaches of the Chir as tanks to break through the defense on the bridgehead at Ostrovsky-Golovsky.
Kozhanov's brigade was allowed to be used in this capacity until December 8.
Three additional KV tanks were sent from Perelazovsky to reinforce, so on the evening of December 6, Kozhanov's brigade had nine KV tanks. In addition, according to my assumptions (for which there are material confirmations), seven T-34 tanks were sent from Perelazovsky, some of which belonged to the 157th TBr of the 26th TC. On the evening of December 6, the number of tanks in the 117th TBr increased by 15 units. Consequently, in addition to ten tanks of the tank company (the company arrived at the Ostrovsky-Golovsky bridgehead together with the motorcycle regiment of Lt. Colonel Belik), five tanks of the 26th TC were sent to the 117th TBr.
On December 8, at that moment Kozhanov's brigade was at state farm No. 79, two telegrams were received. One telegram congratulating the brigade on being awarded the rank of Guards. Now the brigade was called the 15th Guards Tank Brigade. The second telegram demanding to immediately send a brigade to the location of the 26th TC.
From this, it can be understood why the morning operational summary of the 1st Tank Corps headquarters for December 9 indicated the number of tanks only for the 216th TBr. It was not known the number of tanks that would remain in the brigades of the 1st TC. Then there was a positive response to the request to leave the tanks of the 26th TC as part of the 5th TA, and send only personnel to Kalach. Then, on the morning of December 10, an instruction was given to leave Kozhanov's brigade at the disposal of the 5th TA until December 15.
That is why I wrote to you earlier that using information from operational reports for the period from December 7 to December 10 on the number of active tanks to calculate losses will give an error.
The 307th OGMD (separate Guards mortar division), mentioned in operational summary No. 0208, had eight installations based on the T-60 tank. On December 7, four installations were ready for use. On December 8, the 307th OGMD operated in the area of heights 157.8 - 160.3. The map of the 336th ID confirms this. Consequently, by 16:00 on December 8, the 307th OGMD was operating together with the 8th SMTsR and the 117th TBr. According to the armored report dated December 20, 6 installations were ready for battle in the 307th OGMD. Irretrievable losses for the period from November 19 to December 20 amounted to two installations. Consequently, those three installations that were hit on December 8 north of state farm No. 79 were evacuated and put on alert.
On the evening map of the 336th ID for December 8, one exploded installation is presented as the destruction of the entire 307th OGMD.

Once again, my apologies for the quality of the text in both Russian and English.
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 04 Dec 2023 20:57

Map 336.ID, on which one exploded rocket launcher based on a T-60 tank is presented as the destroyed 307th OGMD.
336ID(sitmap)(8_12_42)B.jpg
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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 04 Dec 2023 22:27

TSAMO (331-5041-24 L.70)

TO THE COMMANDER OF THE 5TH TA

Combat report No. 040
1TC Headquarters, 16:30, 9.12.42
Height 161

1. The 89th, 117th and 216th TBr concentrated at OSTROVSKY by 7:00 on 12/9.42 and immediately began refueling and viewing the material part.
2. In the morning, the enemy launched an offensive by two infantry battalions with the support of 20 tanks to a height of 161. All his attacks were repulsed, 4 tanks were destroyed, after which the tanks turned and went west, and the infantry retreated to their original position and from 16:00 conducts a fire battle.
A tankman of the 15th Tank Regiment of the 11th Tank Division was captured. The division arrived from Roslavl four days ago. The division unloaded somewhere near KHARKOV.
50 tanks arrived, motorized infantry of the 110th and 111th regiments.

3. On the orders of Colonel DRUGOV, the 216th TBr, consisting of four KV and one T-34, was thrown into the area of the 333rd Infantry Division.
At 15:00, the 117th TBr, consisting of two T-70s and three T-34s, was sent into an ambush, in the lower reaches of the OSTROV beam, to repel infantry descending there by force up to the battalion and the next to OSTROVSKY.

The 89th TBr, consisting of two T-34s, one T-70 and one T-60, is my reserve. It is located on the northern slopes of altitude 161.
159th TBr, consisting of four T-34 and three T-70, reflects enemy attacks at altitude 161 together with the 44th MSBr.

COMMANDER OF 1 TC
Major General of the tank forces / BUTKOV/

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Re: Battle of Sovkhoz «Red Star» (Sovkhoz 79)

Post by Yuri » 04 Dec 2023 22:50

Pay attention.
In connection with the withdrawal of the 216th TBr from the subordination of the 1st TC, the order to use it on the bridgehead is given not by the corps commander, but by the chief of staff of Army.
The activity of the German troops throughout the day on December 9th is very weak. This suggests that the Germans failed to achieve significant success on December 8th. Otherwise, they would certainly have continued their offensive on the bridgehead.

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