Battle of Bobr

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zabrali
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Battle of Bobr

Post by zabrali » 12 Jul 2008 13:55

Hi,

I'm looking for some information to the 4 tigers which fought with the "Kampfgruppe Bridoux" in battle of Bobr on june 26, 1944.
Kampfgruppe Bridoux
1/IR 638
2/IR 638
3/IR 638
13/IR 638
regimental P.A.K.
2 companies of the III/IR 638 wich number
"section de chasse"
schwere Panzer-Abteilung ( Tiger ) 505
4 tigers ???????

Best regards
zabrali

kon
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by kon » 14 Jul 2008 18:52

not Bobr,but Bobrujsk or in translation from belarussian language Babrujsk
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/europe/belarus

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zabrali
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by zabrali » 14 Jul 2008 20:19

ok Kon, but french authors and french collaborator newspaper write battle of Bobr and the river Bobr

zabrali

kon
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by kon » 14 Jul 2008 20:43

yes,french author knew history
mini-battle was there,red point on map
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1% ... 0%BA%D0%B8
Hitler has taken away from group of armies center all tank divisions and has provided with Russian success

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frontowik
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by frontowik » 16 Jul 2008 00:33

zabrali wrote:but french authors and french collaborator newspaper write battle of Bobr and the river Bobr

It is an evident mistake. Like Kon saids it's of course about a city Bobruysk on the river Beresina. However Bobr river (in polish: Bóbr and in german: Bober) also exists, but it's in today's west Poland, and more precisely it's one of tributaries of the Oder.

And here's a paragraph from Richard Landwehr's "French Volunteers of the Waffen-SS" p. 14-15:
JUNE 1944
I Battalion under Major Bridoux was incorporated into a German battlegroup near Bobruysk and fought a major delaying action, enabling much of the 9th Army to breakout of a Soviet encirclement. This 1,000 man task force, including 400 Frenchmen, stopped two Russian tank divisions in their tracks for 48 hours with the aid of 2 Tiger tanks. Afterwards the Soviet high command issued a report indicating that this delay had been caused by the resistance of “two French divisions.”


Like You see it's very tendentious text (look at the fragment about "Russian tank divisions") but meybe it little help.

And here's a book about service of the s.Pz.Abt.505:
http://www.amazon.com/Tiger-Project-Kro ... 593&sr=1-1

regards
frontowik

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Benoit Douville
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by Benoit Douville » 16 Jul 2008 01:51

Frontowik,

Awesome info about this forgotten Battle of the Eastern Front. Do you know if it was the Charlemagne Division with the help of the Wehrmacht who stopped two Soviet tank Division?

Regards

Nicole S.
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by Nicole S. » 16 Jul 2008 10:40

It was rather the French legion under Cance :wink:

I think so...

Horrido!

Nicole

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frontowik
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by frontowik » 16 Jul 2008 16:31

Benoit Douville wrote:Do you know if it was the Charlemagne Division with the help of the Wehrmacht who stopped two Soviet tank Division?

Hi, it couldn't be "Charlemagne" Division because it didn't exist in summer of 1944. That unit, like Zabrali wrote, was the L.V.F. (in Wehrmacht known as Infanterie-Regiment 638):
Kampfgruppe Bridoux
1/IR 638
2/IR 638
3/IR 638
13/IR 638
regimental P.A.K.
2 companies of the III/IR 638 wich number
"section de chasse"
schwere Panzer-Abteilung ( Tiger ) 505
4 tigers ???????


Secondly, KG "Bridoux" couldn't stopped "two Russian tank divisions" because at the time the Red Army didn't have a tank divisions at the soviet-german front. In 1944 there was only one (most probably) Tank Division - 111. TD (at the Zabaikal Front). So, these "Tank Divisions" could be simply the Rifle Divisions (from 48th or 65th Army for example) with attached armored units like Tank or SP regiments.

Here You can see a OdB of the Red Army for 1944:
http://docs.vif2.ru/misc/BoevojSostavSA1944.pdf

And here is a very nice map for "Bagration":
http://victory.mil.ru/war/maps/046.jpg

regards
frontowik

Art
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by Art » 19 Jul 2008 11:13

frontowik wrote:It is an evident mistake. Like Kon saids it's of course about a city Bobruysk on the river Beresina.

I believe in this case it's the river Bobr and the village of the same name west of Borisov. See the scheme from the combat history of the 5th Guards Tank Army (both river and village are underlined):
Image
The reference to Tiger Abteilung 505 gives some clue. It's pretty well known that in late June 1944 this battlion operated near Borisov in cooperation with the 5 Panzer Division. A search of KG Bridoux in Google gives some information which is very contradictory in regard to place in time of its actions, but at least some links point to the region of Borisov too:
http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=77
As for combat actions at Bobr they took place on 27th July when the vanguards of the 3rd Guards Tank Corps/ 5th GTA reached the river, by the end of the day the river was crossed and the village Bobr was seized. Sorry, but no references to any French volunteers units in my sources.

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frontowik
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by frontowik » 19 Jul 2008 20:05

Damn it! You have absolutely right Art. About Bobr was even some info in Sovinformbureau's communique on June 27th. Here is fragment of it (see the underlined fragment):
На МИНСКОМ направлении наши войска, развивая успешное наступление, с боями заняли более 350 населённых пунктов, в том числе крупные населённые пункты РИДОМЛЯ, РАВЕТИЧИ, БУШМИН, МАЛОЕ ГАЛЬЦЕВО, ВОЛОСОВО, КЛУБИНИЧИ, ЗАБОРЬЕ, ОБЧУГА, БОБР и железнодорожная станция БОБР.

source: http://www.soldat.ru/doc/sovinfburo/1944/1944_06.html

And here is full combat history of the 5th GTA: http://militera.lib.ru/h/dorogami_pobed/index.html

Some info about struggle on Bobr river:
Затишье закончилось когда 23 июня советские войска развернули наступательную операцию "Багратион" и рухнул фронт группы армий "Центр". И теперь sPzAbt.505 выпала участь прикрывать откатывающиеся части, принимая на себя удар наступающих советских группировок. Уже на исходе дня 23 июня несколько боевых экипажей подразделения придали образованной боевой группе майора Бридо командовавшего 400 легионерами 638 французского гренадерского полка, с которыми заняли позиции на реке Бобр притоке Березины. В первой советской атаке они уничтожили два Шермана М4А2. Далее завязался ожесточенный бой, длившийся около двух суток, танкисты совместно с французскими бойцами уничтожил 34 танка противника. Затем, отступив, они участвовали в жестоких оборонительных боях на шоссе Молодечно - Лида - Августов. Здесь в течение первой половины июля они потеряли свои последние танки или уничтожили их сами, а с 11 по 12 июля по решению ОКХ sPzAbt.505 вывели с передовой на переформирование и переоснащение "Королевскими Тиграми". Перед этим, когда еще была возможность, около десятка танков передали в другие подразделения.

source: http://forum.rc-mir.mobi/topic1853707_40

For a trouble with russian I recommend: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

regards
frontowik

Art
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Re: Battle of Bobr

Post by Art » 21 Jul 2008 15:52

Shermans knocked out by Tigers from 505 SPzAbt were most likely from the 3rd Guards Tank Corps - it was equipped with M4s and Valentines at the start of "Bagration".

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