Krasny Bor Battle

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
User avatar
jenofonte
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 23:07

Krasny Bor Battle

Post by jenofonte » 30 Jul 2008 21:35

Hi, I am new in this, so sorry for the mistakes.
Basic question: do you know the russian casualties , aprox., in the Batle of Krasny Bor. Sources, please.

User avatar
frontowik
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 10:01
Location: somewhere between Bug and Oder

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by frontowik » 31 Jul 2008 11:44

Hi, 55th Army had lost about 10,000 men (February 10-13th) and the “Blau Division” (250. Infanterie-Division) had lost about 3,200 men.

Source: Glantz David M. “The Siege of Leningrad: 900 Days of Terror”, p.141

Here’s also some many useful information and some sources for further researches:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... ref_Glantz

regards
frontowik

User avatar
Benoit Douville
Financial supporter
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by Benoit Douville » 04 Aug 2008 23:29

It is interesting to note in that article that the major clash who took place on Wednesday, 10 February 1943. In Spain, it has become known as "Black Wednesday", due to the huge losses of the Spanish division in the battle. It was the most costly battle in which the Spanish volunteers participated on the eastern front.

Regards

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 4723
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by Art » 06 Aug 2008 09:47


Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 4723
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by Art » 06 Aug 2008 09:57

frontowik wrote:Hi, 55th Army had lost about 10,000 men (February 10-13th)

Glantz write that these are estimated losses, and I don't understand by whom they were estimated.
Just a remark: Krasniy Bor was on the frontline for about 2,5 years and there were a number of combat engagements in this area. It's worth to specify which one is meant by the author of the thread.

User avatar
jenofonte
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 23:07

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by jenofonte » 06 Aug 2008 20:04

I am refering strictly february 1943

User avatar
jenofonte
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 23:07

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by jenofonte » 07 Aug 2008 00:50

Benoit Douville wrote:It is interesting to note in that article that the major clash who took place on Wednesday, 10 February 1943. In Spain, it has become known as "Black Wednesday", due to the huge losses of the Spanish division in the battle. It was the most costly battle in which the Spanish volunteers participated on the eastern front.

Regards



On 15 February the 250th Infantry Division reported casualties of 3,645 wounded or killed and 300 missing or taken prisoner (a 75% casualty rate). It claimed 11,000 Soviet troops of the 55th Army had been killed in the five days beginning 9 February.
Ratio 1:3 . Cool numbers.

User avatar
frontowik
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 10:01
Location: somewhere between Bug and Oder

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by frontowik » 09 Aug 2008 11:11

Art wrote:
frontowik wrote:Hi, 55th Army had lost about 10,000 men (February 10-13th)

It's worth to specify which one is meant by the author of the thread.

Time of the engagement was given very precisely.

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 4723
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by Art » 11 Aug 2008 09:27

frontowik wrote:Time of the engagement was given very precisely.

By you but not by jenofonte. I just wanted to be sure that you are talking about the same event.

User avatar
jenofonte
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Jul 2008 23:07

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by jenofonte » 11 Aug 2008 10:31

Oh, issue closed.

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 4723
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by Art » 11 Aug 2008 14:02

Ok. The report by the staff of the Leningrad Front of 10 February 1943 says that apart from the Spanish division the 3rd Regiments of SS Division (evidently SS Pol.Div) was present in the attacked sector. The same document reads that about 200 prisoners from 262 IR/250 ID and 3 IR/SS Div were captured during the day. No information on losses unfortunately.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 7515
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by tigre » 10 Jan 2010 12:44

Hello to all :D; for those interested............................

Krasny Bor – Febrero de 1943.

Back ground – To the East Front.

When the World War II began, Spain had been proclaimed neutral, and later it was changed to the situation of " not belligerent". The affections of the Regime of Franco were clearly on the side of the Axis then, not in vain, the aid of the Italy of Mussolini and the Germany of Hitler had been of great importance to gain the victory in the Civil War.

When the Operation " Barbarroja" took place (Unternehmen Barbarossa in German, was the code name given by Hitler for the plan of invasion of the Union Soviet during World War II) the situation gave a radical turn.

The Phalange received the news with enthusiasm; their leaders launched the idea to send a Spanish contingent of volunteers to the recently open front, to take part in which was baptized as the “European fight against the Comunismo". Being this origin of the idea, almost spontaneous the new formation was assigned the name of “División Azul". The Army did not wish, nevertheless, that the volunteers were recruited only through the Phalange, its Militias and its youthful organizations for themselves. The solution consisted in recruiting a unit where the command would come mostly from the Army and the troops would come, to a large extent, from the Phalange Militias.

The contingents of volunteers were organized very quickly and sent in brief term to Germany. The fear existed of which the campaign went to finish before they had reached the front. In the case of the Blue Division, it received a period of instruction and quite brief equipment, in the Training Ground of Grafenwöhr.

The unit of volunteers was equipped like a horse-drawn Division, as it were mostly of the German Infantry divisions. The Division started off for Poland in train, but it was disembarked there and it had to initiate one long walk, of about 1,000 km., towards the central sector of the East Front, to which it was assigned. Strategic needs advised to direct it, nevertheless, towards the North sector and, on October of 1941, it entered in line in the sector of Novgorod and the Voljov River, integrated in the German 16 AOK.

On aug 11 of 1942 the 250 ID (Blue Division) was shifted towards the Leningrad Front (and 18 AOK) taken there the sector assigned before to the German 121 ID.

On Dec 1942, General Agustín Muñoz Grandes, was decorated with the Knight's Cross and handed over the Division to a new Commanding Officer, General Emilio Esteban-Infantes.

Sources: Morir en Rusia. La División Azul en Krasny Bor.
http://members.libreopinion.com/ch1492/ ... u_div.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 7515
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by tigre » 14 Jan 2010 16:18

Hello to all :D; more follows.......................

Deployment.

Originally, the Spaniards had deployed from Alexandrowka, to the W, up to the shore of the Ishora, to the E. But in January, when the 4ª Division SS - Polizei left its lines, the Spanish sector extended up to the Leningrad-Moscow railroad. The front, of more than 30 kilometers, demanded that the three Regiments, plus the Reserve battalion 250º would deploy in forward edge, without practically leaving no Battalion acting as reserve.

The 263º Regiment (Lieutenant Colonel Crescencio Perez de Bolumburu) occupied the western end of the Spanish front, due north of the city of Pushkin; with some companies of its I. /263 as reserve. To its right, the 269º Regiment (Colonel Carlos Rubio Lopez-Guijarro), occupied the center of the sector, due north of the city of Sluzk. The most Eastern segment of the front of the Blue Division was occupied by the 262º Regiment (Colonel Manuel Sagrado Marchena), with its three Battalions in the trenches and, as it had extended its sector, it had received as reinforcement the Reserve battalion 250º and the Company of Skiers 250ª.

The Spanish artillery had deployed its IIº Group astride the positions of the Regiments 263º and 269º, the IIIº Group in the line of contact between the 269º and the 262º and the Iº Group directly behind the positions of this last Regiment. The IVº Group, the heavy one, was located more to rear, having deployed all its batteries covering with their fires the whole sector of the division. The Artillery regiment 250º, commanded by Colonel (Oberst) Francisco Bandín Delgado, had its CP in Sluzk. Something more to the south, in the small population of Pokrovskaia, was the Headquarters of the Division. The bulk of the train units had settled down in Mestelevo.

Sources: Morir en Rusia. La División Azul en Krasny Bor.
http://members.libreopinion.com/ch1492/ ... u_div.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 7515
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by tigre » 17 Jan 2010 13:31

Hello to all :D; more follows.......................

Neighboring units.

To the High Command of the German Army Group " North" did not escape the new danger that loomed over his 18 AOK so several measures it had been taken, among them, it was ordered to return to its primitive sector in the zone of the Tosna to the 4. SS Division. Exactly on February 08, the first echelons of that division began to arrive to its previous lines although, significantly, not to the lines that had given to the Blue Division, but only to that given to the 5 GD. On February 10, when triggering the Soviet attack the Division SS was in the middle of a delicate situation while taking its new deployment’s line.

The sector of 4 SS - Division was split in three subsectors. The Eastern one, next to ending of the Tosna River, under Major Dórner, fitted the few men ready for duty of the 2 SS-Police Regiment, reinforced by two weak Companies added to it (one of the100º Mountain infantry regiment and another one of the 374º Regiment of Grenadiers). The total strength for duty in forward edge was of around 500 men. In the center, Major Schümers had in line which was left of the 1º SS-Police Regiment and the division Reconnaissance group, with other 500 men. The Western sector, which was adjacent to the Spaniards, was under the command of the Lieutenant Colonel Reifflin, with the remnants of the 3º SS-Police Regiment, which totalized 335 men exactly.

The other neighbor of the Blue Division, on its left flank, was another unit of the Waffen SS, specifically the 2 SS - Brigade of Infantry. When it had been created, in 1941, did not think about using it as a combat force, but for antipartisans tasks in the occupied USSR. The Soviet counter-offensive in the winter of 1941-42 had catapulted it to the front, losing one of its two Regiments, shifted to a more threatened sector. In order to complete it, the Germans subordinated to this brigade several of the Legions of Volunteers who had been recruited in Europe: the SS - Dutch Legion (equivalent to a Regiment) and the SS - Flemish Legion (equivalent to a Battalion).

Sources: Morir en Rusia. La División Azul en Krasny Bor.
http://members.libreopinion.com/ch1492/ ... u_div.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 7515
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Krasny Bor Battle

Post by tigre » 21 Jan 2010 14:38

Hello to all :D; more follows.......................

Reinforcing the defenses.

From January 25 of 1943 onwards, the Commanding Officer of the L Army Corps, General Philip Kleffel, as well the Commander of the Blue Division, General Emilio Esteban-Infantes, began to take certain measures in order to reinforce the sector of Krasny Bor, because nobody doubted that the enemy would launch an offensive there. General Lindemann, Commander of the German 18º Army together with Marshal v. Küchler, Commanding Officer of the Army Group "North" , visited the zone.

After the visits of inspection of all these generals, it was ordered to improve the defenses, to increase the ammunition stocks (the batteries deployed in the sector of Krasny Bor accumulated up to 1,500 shells) and to prepare to send to the sector all the available reinforcements. It were taken away from the MLR two units, the Reconnaissance Group 250º (Captain García-Ciudad), and the Company of Skiers 250ª (captain Gómez de Salazar) to use them like a maneuvering force in the sector of the IR 262º. Also it was sent towards there the entire Combat Engineer Battalion 250 º (Major Bellod) and the Antitank Group 250º (Major La Cruz) whose manpower had been until then dispersed all along the divisional front.

An incorporation, that took place very shortly before the beginning of the battle, was one antitank Battery (three pieces of 75 mm) which belonged to the Legion SS Norway, integrated within the 2º SS Brigade as was told before, that marched in the direction of the Spanish sector on February 04. On the other hand, a Battery of 155 mm of French origin which was located in the southern edge of Krasny Bor. It was indeed the “2. Battery of Heeres Küstenartillerie Abteilung 289". Although deployed next to the Spaniards, this unit depended on the Artillery headquarters of the L Army Corps, "Arko 138". Also under orders of this Artillery headquarters a German Infantry company was located in the population of Krasny Bor, under orders of Leutnant Loppel, in charge of the tactical defense of the German batteries deployed nearby.

The total front occupied by the 262º Regiment was of around 17 kilometers and its four battalions covered sectors that stretched from 3 kilometers in the case of Reserve battalion 250º up to 6 kilometers held by the Iº/262. In any case, as we saw, the front of the 262º IR had been divided in two subsectors. The subsector of the Ishora under the Lieutenant Colonel Araujo, had two Battalions, the IIIº/262 (Captain García Calvo) and the Reserve Battalion 250 (Captain Miranda). The former was the one which linked with the neighbor 269º Regiment. The Eastern subsector, the one of Krasny Bor proper, started from a deep anti-tank ditch that in North-South direction cut the Spanish lines and ran something to the east of the Leningrad-Moscow highway.

Sources: Morir en Rusia. La División Azul en Krasny Bor.
http://members.libreopinion.com/ch1492/ ... u_div.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Return to “WW2 in Eastern Europe”