Panzers and Polish Lancers

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
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Musashi
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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by Musashi » 10 May 2011 06:54

Domen121 wrote:Ratio of forces in the battle of Mokra-Ostrowy (1 - 2 September 1939):

Poles/Germans:

1) tanks: 19*/341 --------------------- (ratio: 1:18)[...]
You should add, out of 19 Polish tanks (they were tankettes in fact), none of them had any anti-tank capabilities and they were armed just with machine guns.

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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by Peter K » 08 Jul 2011 17:28

"1st battery of 2nd DAK in the battle of Mokra" by Edward Mesjasz:
1.jpg
"2nd battery of 2nd DAK in the battle of Mokra" by Edward Mesjasz:
2.jpg
"3rd battery of 2nd DAK in the battle of Mokra" by Edward Mesjasz:
3.jpg
From: http://www.dobroni.pl/rekonstrukcje,wrz ... mokra,6640

2nd DAK = 2nd Horse Artillery Battalion (integral artillery battalion of Volhynian Cavalry Brigade).

Casualties of 2nd DAK in the battle of Mokra:

- ca. 30 KIA
- ca. 50 WIA
- ca. 30 MIA
- 5 guns lost (destroyed)
- 4 machine guns lost
- 9 ammunition trailers lost
- 115 horses dead

===================================================

Here some photos from the battlefield of Mokra (1939 photos) in this thread:

http://odkrywca.pl/zdjecia-z-pola-bitwy ... 45846.html

And here some photos of graves of German soldiers KIA in the battle of Mokra:

http://s04.trixum.de/upload2/x/b/xbTNsV ... 3P1596.jpg

http://s03.trixum.de/upload2/t/n/tnGo3E ... 2P1596.jpg

http://s04.trixum.de/upload2/3/V/3VNDCh ... 8P1596.jpg

http://s04.trixum.de/upload2/k/O/kO25XB ... 4P1596.jpg

http://s04.trixum.de/upload2/K/Z/KZyUJY ... 4P1596.jpg

All graves on these photos are graves of soldiers KIA near Mokra III.
(there were 3 villages - Mokra I, Mokra II and Mokra III)
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MARQ
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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by MARQ » 06 Dec 2011 09:26

STALAGl3 wrote:Did Polish Calvary actually charge German Panzers with lances in 1939?
I've heard many disputes on this topic. Does anyone have photos or proof that this event actually occured?
AFAIR the lances were not used during during Semptember Campaign.
More about supposed charge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty

IMO Pomeranian Cavalry Brigade didn't perform poorly. Guderian writes in Memoirs of a Soldier:

***During the night the nervousness on the first day of the battle made itself felt more than once. Shortly after midnight the 2nd (Motorised) Division informed me that they were being compelled to withdraw by Polish cavalry. I was speechless for a moment; when I regained the use of my voice I asked the divisional commander if he had ever heard of Pomeranian grenadiers being broken by hostile cavalry. He replied that he had not and now assured me that he could hold his positions. I decided all the same that I must visit this division the next morning.

Picard578
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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by Picard578 » 10 Dec 2011 15:45

These cannons in pictures look a lot like Austro-Hungarian and Russian field cannons from WW1. Is there a thread about it?

Peter K
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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by Peter K » 10 Dec 2011 16:25

These cannons in pictures look a lot like Austro-Hungarian and Russian field cannons from WW1.
Because they are Russian field cannons from WW1, just recalibrated from 76,2mm to 75mm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/76_mm_divi ... evelopment

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armata_wz._02/26

These guns were even called "Orthodox" by Polish soldiers.

Orlov
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QUESTIONS Panzers/Armoured Cars and Polish Lances and Sabres

Post by Orlov » 14 Jun 2013 22:43

I would like to ask you to answer for a some questions:

Mokra
- What was the level of German victims in relation to the level of Polish victims?
- Who galloped after the assault raid conducted by the Hs 123?
- Who was the target of Polish lancers galloping near Mokra?

Krojanty
- Who was the target of galloping lancers? Panzergrenediers? Infanterie (motorisiert)? Tanks? Tankette?
- Where were fighted armored cars from Aufklärungs-Abteilung 20 (Sd.Kfz. 232 s & Sd.Kfz. 222's) during the battle at Krojanty?
- Which part of the 20 Infanteriedivision (motorisiert) were involved at Krojanty?
- Is this typical for 20 Infanteriedivision (motorisiert) Opel "Blitz" with MG-34 of the ring Scarff, were involved in this battle?
- Is it possible that the crew of standard MG-34 on Scarff ring mounted on the cab car, fired on galloping Polish lancers?

Wolka Weglowa
Who galloped out there? Why? And against whom?
How many German tankettes (Pz.Kpfw.I) or armored cars were in Wolka Coal after the Battle of Bzura and at the first part of siege of Warsaw?

Another idea - not swords, not lances, BUT bayonets vs Panzers
I would like ask for clarification Polish ideas invented by Colonel Mossor, recognized as the pre-war infantry tactics, assuming bayonets attack against tanks? Attacks without use of "super-secret" anti-tank rifles Mk 35 'Uruguay'! Only bayonet "Perkun" Mk. 29 or other models of bayonets against tanks armed MG's or Cannons?
Were these terrible ideas used in Pszyczyna by infantry fighting commanded by General Mond?

bestreg
Orlov

[edited by this moderator, at the poster's request. -- DT]

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Ponury
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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by Ponury » 18 Jun 2013 22:07

To może po polsku? :)

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tigre
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Re: Panzers and Polish Lancers

Post by tigre » 01 Aug 2014 02:22

Hello to all :D; a little complement.................

The PR 35 at Mokra.

Source: in the pictures.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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