German tank support of the Italian 8th army

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GD1942
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Re: German tank support of the Italian 8th army

#31

Post by GD1942 » 17 Jul 2010, 07:12

Thanks again for all the information. You guys know your stuff! From everything I've read about Italian troops (especially the Alpini in particular), they were solid troops. Since history is mostly written by the side that wins ... I think they got a bad rep ... It wasn't the soldiers fault that most (if not all) of their leadership was lacking, to include having to utilize sub standard equipment ... even with that said, I think they made a good showing of themselves.

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GD1942
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Re: German tank support of the Italian 8th army

#32

Post by GD1942 » 29 Sep 2010, 15:56

What do you all know of LTG Luigi Reverberi? I've been researching, as I'm trying to find Italian leadership that "stuck out" ... Hero types like Rommel to the Germans. Reverberi had a long career, and lead the last assault to break out from the Soviet encirclement winter of 1943.

Any other Italian leadership that stuck out? As always ... documentation on the Italians is scarce ...


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Leo Niehorster
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Re: German tank support of the Italian 8th army

#33

Post by Leo Niehorster » 18 Jan 2018, 12:28

I have a different take on this.
(Previously posted at Feldgrau.)

The only assault gun unit that was in the area was the 190. Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung, (strength on 12.01.1943: 32 Sturmgeschütz III) under General-Kommando zu besondere Verwendung Cramer (“Corps Cramer for special purposes”). Korps Cramer was the reserve of German Herresgruppe B. It was commanded by General der Schnellen Truppen Hans Cramer.

Corps Cramer was released from reserve on 15.01.1943. At that time, the 190. StuG-Abt was located near Ostrogosk, probably under the 26. German Infanterie-Division.

By 19.01.43, the entire Second Hungarian Army had been pushed westwards, holed up in Ostrogosk, Alexeyevka, and Budyenny, while the Eighth Italian Army had been bypassed by the 15th and 17th Soviet Tank Corps. Towards evening, the northern Italian remnants of the Alpini Corps (designated "Tridentina Group") started moving out of the encirclement, but the fall of Valuiky to the 7th Soviet Cavalry Corps (redesignated as 6th Soviet Guard Cavalry Corps) forced the Italians to move north west.

Then on 21.01.1943, the “Tridentina Group”, supported by the 26. German Infanterie-Division's artillery and Sturmgeschütz, broke through the Soviet lines in the early morning hours, and began crossing the Olhovatka River. The “Tridentina Group” then marched through Novo Kharkovka and by evening, a mixed German-Hungarian-Italian column of 25,000 men, hundreds of horses, vehicles, and equipment stretched from Limaryev to Novy Georgiyevsky.


Your comments are welcome.
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Leo
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tigre
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Re: German tank support of the Italian 8th army

#34

Post by tigre » 03 Sep 2020, 17:44

Hello to all :D; just in case...........................................

The 27. Panzer - Winter 1942-1943.

Origins.

The 27th Panzer Division was organized in southern Russia on October 1, 1942. The division was created by renaming the "Michalek Group" from the 22nd Panzer Division. After the withdrawal of the 22nd Panzer Division from Crimea, the "Michalek Group" was based on the reinforced Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140. The Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140 was established on July 5, 1942 in southern Russia by renaming the Schützen-Regiments 140. In August 1942, the regiment, as the nucleus of the Panzer Group, was subordinate to the Army Group B as a rapid reaction force of the 2nd Army, which engaged in heavy defensive battles in the area between Tim and the area on either side of Voronezh / Don. The Group consisted of:

Parts of the HQ / Schützen-Brigade 22
HQ Schützen-Regiment 140
parts of elements of the regiment (without the Fla-Kompanie - AA)
I. / Schützen-Regiment 140
III. / Panzer-Regiment 204
I. (mixed) / Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 140

In September 1942, the 27th Panzer Division was organized in the defensive zone west of Voronezh in the area of ​​the 2nd Army. As mentioned above, the official name change to 27. Panzer Division followed on October 1, 1942. For this, the following units were incorporated into the new division:

Pionier-Bataillon (mot) 260
HQ Artillerie-Regiment (mot), z.b.V. 677
II. / Artillerie-Regiment 51 (mot)
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 560
Other units came from replacement troops.

Panzer-Abteilung 127 was organized on September 21, 1942 in southern Russia from the III. Abteilung of the 204. Panzer Regiment of the 22. Panzer Division. The detachment was subordinated to the 27th Panzer Division and was deployed to the Don in southern Russia. At the time of its creation, it was structured as follows:
HQ Company
1st Company (light)
2nd Company (light)
3rd Company (medium)

On October 9, 1942, all operational parts of the 27th Panzer Division, including the bulk of the detachment that had arrived thus far, were relocated to the area west of Voronezh to be ready for a possible Russian attack. On October 10, 1942, from Schwetzingen of the Panzer-Ersatz -Abteilung 100, the 3. / Panzer-Abteilung 127 arrived in Kastornoje and joined the unit. The former 3rd Company was renamed 4th Company. On October 24, 1942 the Pz. Abteilung had an operational tank force of 5 Pz. Kw 38 (t), 8 Pz. Kw III short (KwK 5-cm / L60), 10 Pz. Kw III lg, 12 Pz. Kw III 7.5, 4 Pz. Kw IV kz and 6 Pz. Kw IV lg. In addition, a total of 5 tanks were repaired.

Sources: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... 22PD-R.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... 27PD-R.htm
https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/download ... 8070a82d50

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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tigre
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Re: German tank support of the Italian 8th army

#35

Post by tigre » 10 Sep 2020, 15:39

Hello to all :D; just in case...........................................

The 27. Panzer - Winter 1942-1943.

Operations with ARMIR.

During the few weeks of its formation and reclassification in October and November 1942, the division was already deployed to the central Don in Voronezh. As of October 9, all operational parts of the division were subordinate to the VII Army Corps to be prepared for an expected Russian attack on the German Don bridgehead in Voronezh. This divisional battle group moved to the bridgehead west of the city near Malyshevo on the same day.

On November 4, the division assembled again and marched to the area around Staraya Weduga-Star, where it was again subordinated to the 2. Army. The formation of the division has not yet been completed. The motor vehicle situation in particular was dire and left the division virtually immobile. For its part in early November 1942, the Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140 moved to the northern section of Kastornoje in the area of ​​the 2. Army. The regiment moved to Gorjainowo. While Panzer-Abteilung 127 moved from Izbishche to Nikolskoye on November 10.

In late November 1942, the division moved south behind the right wing of the Italian 8th Army in the area around Rossosch, north of Kantemirowka. Parts of the division were used here to reinforce the Italian defense on the Don. On December 2, 1942, the Schnelle Abteilung 127 was renamed Panzerjäger-Abteilung 127 again. On December 9 and 10, the Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140 moved to the area around Boguchar - Belyj Kolodes - Pissarewka. In their new area of ​​responsibility, the units had the task of preparing in such a way as to cushion possible Russian penetrations in both the Italian 8th Army and the Hungarian 2nd Army.

The 27th Panzer Division was divided into several Battlegroups: Battlegroup I (Oberstleutnant Maempel) with Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140 (without the I. Battalion and two platoons of the 10. Company (Fla)), the Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 201, a battery of light field howitzers. Battlegroup II (Major Friedrich) with the reinforced I. / Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140, Panzer-Abteilung 127, two platoons of sappers, a battery of light field howitzers. Battlegroup III (Oberstleutnant Lachnitt) with Panzerjäger-Ateilung 127 (without the 3. Company) and III. / Polizei-Infanterie-Regiment 6.

Sources: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... 27PD-R.htm
The End of the Royal Hungarian 2nd Army in Jan./Feb. 1943. http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27945/index.htm (off-line)
THE OSTROGOSHSK- ROSSOCH OPERATION. Ostring http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/9891/index.htm

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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tigre
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Re: German tank support of the Italian 8th army

#36

Post by tigre » 17 Sep 2020, 16:43

Hello to all :D; more..........................................

The 27. Panzer - Winter 1942-1943.

Operations with ARMIR.

Battle Group II preempted the blockade around Gadjushche on December 14-15 to prevent an expected Russian advance. After Russian units broke through Italian lines on December 15, Battle Group II was deployed to counterattack towards the area of ​​penetration. It reached the area around Orabinski and was able to seal the gap.

On December 16, the expected great Russian offensive began in the area of ​​the Italian 8th Army. Battle Group I in Deresovka was hit squarely by the Russian offensive. On December 17, the Russian focus was on the division's sector in the Gadjuschtsche-Filonowo section belonging to Battle Group I. On the night of that day, the 27th Panzer Division issued an order for the 2nd Battalion- Panzer Grenadier-Regiment 140, together with 2. / Panzer-Pionier-Bataillon 127 (known as "Kampfgruppe Fürbringer") to break contact with the enemy, assemble through Belyj Kolodes and reach Sorkij.

Battle Group II at Deresowka was fully engaged by the Russian offensive. After heavy losses, it was possible on the night of December 17 to regain most of the abandoned Italian positions on the left wing of the Italian "Cosseria" division. However, the battle group suffered heavy losses. On December 17, Battle Group II was in the section east of Deresowka with remnants of the Italian "Cosseria" division and was able to maintain its bases, although it had already been flanked. On December 17, Battle Group III, along with the remnants of the 9th and 10th companies of Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 140, made their way back behind the southern pockets of resistance from the 27th Panzer Division.

The "Kampfgruppe Friedrich" (I. / PGR 140 with parts of the Pz.Pi.Btl., a battery, Parts of the Pz.Abt. 127) forced their way through enemy-occupied Zapkowo to the blockade of the 27. Panzer Division. On December 20, 1942, the remnants of the 27th Panzer Division were reorganized into: "Kampfgruppe Friedrich", consisting of I. / PGR 140 and 1. / Pz.Pi Btl 127 with 3. / Polizei-Infanterie- Regiment 14, in the northwestern section of Ivanovka. "Kampfgruppe Fürbringer", formed by the II. / PGR 140 reinforced and the remains of the battalion of skiers of the 385. Infantry Division. On the left the "Kampfgruppe Schulze", formed by the III. / Grenadier Regiment 539. As a reserve of the division, Pz. Abt. 127 and the 127 Panzer Artillery Regiment.

Sources: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... 27PD-R.htm
The End of the Royal Hungarian 2nd Army in Jan./Feb. 1943. http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27945/index.htm (off-line)
THE OSTROGOSHSK- ROSSOCH OPERATION. Ostring http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/9891/index.htm
https://cittadiniditalia.it/la-campagna-di-russia-v/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Breakthrough of Soviet forces..................................
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