Uman. 1941

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teg
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Uman. 1941

Post by teg » 26 Aug 2010 13:20

Does somebody has any information about the german units involved in the battle of Uman and losses suffered
by them. Which german armies participated in encirclement of Russian 6-th and 12-th armies?

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doogal
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by doogal » 26 Aug 2010 21:37

This is all of the Wikipedia Website:

(I will check out as much of this as possible but its something to start with)

"On 10 July 1941, Budyonny was given the general command of the troops operating in the Southwestern direction, to coordinate the actions of Southwestern and Southern Fronts. Budyonny had 1.5 million troops under his command in two strategic sectors of the front to defend: at Kiev (37th and 26th armies), and Vinnytsia-Uman. No sooner had he taken up his command than he was advised of the continued Army Group South three-pronged offensives deep into the breach created between the Kiev sector's 26th Army and the 6th Army to its south as General Ewald von Kleist’s Panzer Group 1 drove a wedge between the two Soviet sectors of the front south of Kiev and north of Vinnytsia, capturing Berdychiv on 15 July and Koziatyn on 16 July. General Karl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel’s 17th Field Army advanced to the South of Uman and General Eugen Ritter von Schobert’s 11th Field Army advanced northwards from the Romanian border[2].

STAVKA and the Southern Front's command staff mistakenly assumed that the Germans were striving to reach the crossing of the Dnieper between Kiev and Cherkasy for a further offensive towards Donbass, and underestimated the danger of encirclement for the 6th and 12th armies. On 28 July, an order was given to the Southwestern and Southern Fronts to stop the Germans from crossing the Dnieper and to retreat only in the Eastern direction. As a result, an opportunity to avoid the danger of encirclement by retreating in the Southeastern direction was lost.

The effect of the closing Axis forces was to slowly force the concentration of the two Soviet Armies in an ever reduced area, with the combined HQs of the armies located in the town of Podvisokoye (Подвысокое).

On 2 August, the encirclement was closed by the meeting of the 1st Panzer Group and advance guard elements of the German 17th Field Army. This encirclement was reinforced the next day by a second joining formed when the German 16th Panzer Division met with the Hungarian Mechanized Corps (or Gyorshadtest). By 8 August, the Soviet resistance had generally stopped. Remnants of 20 divisions from the 6th Army and the 12th Army were trapped[3]. German sources after the war reported about 103,000 troops were taken prisoner.[4] Included among officers taken prisoner were commanders of both the 6th and 12th armies, four corps commanders, and eleven division commanders"

"Red Army
6th Army

6th Rifle Corps (reduced)
37th Rifle Corps (reduced)
4th Mechanised Corps (remnants)
15th Mechanised Corps (remnants)
5th Cavalry Corps (remnants)
4th Fortified region (remnants)
6th Fortified region (remnants)

12th Army

13th Rifle Corps (reduced)
17th Rifle Corps (reduced)
16th Mechanised Corps (remnants)
10th Fortified region (remnants)
11th Fortified region (remnants)
12th Fortified region (remnants)

Elements of 18th Army

Wehrmacht Heer
6th Field Army
1st Panzer Group (reduced)
17th Field Army
Hungarian Mechanized Corps
3rd Rumanian Army
11th Field Army " (order of battle courtesy of Wikipedia)

Alan Clarkes "Barbarossa" is in agreement that the encirclement was first closed by the 11th Army and the 1st Pzr Group he points out Wietersham 14th Pzr Corp as the lead on a South east axis and the 11th the opposite moving east from moldavia.

It may be incorrect but its a starting point for investigation
Doogal

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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 17 Oct 2010 00:03

Hello teg :D; here goes a little complement................

The Cauldron of Uman 25th July 1941 - 08 August 1941

In the middle of 1941 the center of the German Army Group South had the Southeast as its direction of attack, the divisions of Panzer Group I (v. Kleist) received the following order: "... attacks towards Aleksandrija, then the space area between Zaporozhye -Dnipropetrovsk ...", so commanded that the ultimate goal was the Dnieper , but in between lay the strong troops of the 6th and 26th Soviet armies, which were located in the greater Uman, Marshal Budennyy wanted, taking advantage of the available force of 2400 tanks at his disposal, to knock the flank of the German Panzer Group I.

At the time the XLVII. AK (mot) already was located deep behind the back of the Soviet Sixth Army, its armored divisions pressed ahead against Uman and Monastyrishche. Marshal Budennyy saw the danger and ordered his troops rigorous counter-attacks, which temporarily brought the 11th and 16th Panzer Divisions into severe difficulties, at the fourth Day of the battle, the SS-Brigade "LAH" was hastily brought up from the battle area of Kiev and pushed between the two divisions; as a result of this the crisis has been overcome.

Sources:
http://www.balsi.de/feldzugsbeginn.htm
Enzian und Edelweiss. Die 4. Gebirgs_Division 1940 – 1945.
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/ ... 1-t297464/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 24 Oct 2010 18:58

Hello to all :D; here goes a little more................
At the time the XLVII. AK (mot) already was located deep behind the back of the Soviet Sixth Army
you should read LVII AK Mot.

The Cauldron of Uman 25th July 1941 - 08 August 1941.

The High Command of Panzer Group I (General von Kleist) had now the chance to encircle the forces of the Red Army which stood further to the west and northwest of Uman, with the XIV Army Corps (Motorized) which was advancing eastward, asking for the Panzer divisions to secure the eastern flank to the Dnieper while the infantry and mountain divisions of the XLIX. Mountain and LII. AK approached the battlefield from the west.

The soldiers of the 1st and 4th Mountain Divisions went ahead, the advance party of the 1 Geb. Div. moved in an assault march eastward across Tarassowka and met in the Sabugskoje Ssinjucha the spearheads of the 9th Panzer Division, so that the troops of the 17 AOK and Panzer Group I joined hands, the cauldron of Uman with the bulk of the 6 and 12 Soviet Armies and part of the 18th Soviet Army within it, was by now closed.

Sources: http://www.balsi.de/feldzugsbeginn.htm
Enzian und Edelweiss. Die 4. Gebirgs_Division 1940 – 1945.
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/ ... 1-t297464/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 31 Oct 2010 22:02

Hello to all :D; here goes a little more................

The Cauldron of Uman 25th July 1941 - 08 August 1941.

The first Mountain Division turned immediately to the north, while the Geb.Jäg.Rgt 98 took over the cauldron’s front facing due south; here it met on August 03, the spearheads of the 257th ID and the 101st Light Division which reinforced the South front, on this day was cleared up the situation in the North after the 4th Mountain Division was pushed forward towards Ternovka.

On Aug 02 1941, at 13:00 hours and after marching 28 kilometers, the GJR 91’s spearhead had reached and seized the bridge over the Jatrany river at Polonistoje. After resting for a while the column resumed its march following a sandy road where the vehicles went bogged down anytime. The column finally reached the crossroad located 5 kilometers south of Podwyssokoje.

At the same time, the GJR 13 went across the Jatrany at Peregonowka and established a bridgehead towards Kopjenkowata (heigh 193 seized by II./ GJR 13 under Major Ott); the division’s front stretched over 20 kilometers counting the gaps. To the north was covering the Pz Jäg Abt belonging to the 97 Le. ID.

Sources: http://www.balsi.de/feldzugsbeginn.htm
Enzian und Edelweiss. Die 4. Gebirgs_Division 1940 – 1945.
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/ ... 1-t297464/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 07 Nov 2010 19:46

Hello to all :D; here goes a little more................

The Cauldron of Uman 25th July 1941 - 08 August 1941.

Two days later, the encircled Soviet formations were herded southeast of Uman in a cauldron of 20 x 20 km in width and depth, the Russian commanders and political commissars drove the soldiers, already fighting for days on without adequate food, to break through the encirclement in a southeasterly direction, but the German defense was strengthened from day to day.

On August 05 the boiler’s front was an isosceles triangle, the eastern front of the pocket stretching from the south of Talnoie to Ternowka on the Ssinjucha, where the German units were standing here facing west from right to left: 16 ID (mot), SS-Brigade "Leibstandarte" and 11 PD; the southern front west of Ternowka was covered only by the troops of the 1.Geb.Div, closing up from the southwest marching between Kopjenkowata and southeastwards came the 4. Geb. Div and the 97 Le. Div. The front lines in the northwest and north were assured (from right to left) by the 125 ID, 24 ID and 297 ID.

Sources: http://www.balsi.de/feldzugsbeginn.htm
Enzian und Edelweiss. Die 4. Gebirgs_Division 1940 – 1945.
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/ ... 1-t297464/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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John Hilly
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by John Hilly » 08 Nov 2010 12:27

tigre wrote:A Soviet tank B-7 knocked out around Peregonowka.
To be exact it is a rare BT-7A (A=Artillery) with 76 mm Howitzer. 8-)

Image

Greets
Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 08 Nov 2010 23:06

Thank you very much for that tip John Hilly :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Max Payload
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Max Payload » 10 Nov 2010 13:00

Something that has puzzled me about the Uman encirclement is the lack of any significant contribution from Eleventh Army. Seventeenth Army had to cover around 600km to get from the northern Carpathians, past Lvov, through Ternopol, south of Vinnitsa and on to the south of Uman. Eleventh Army, advancing from the middle Prut, could have reached the same location in less than half that distance. Once von Rundstedt had decided to turn First Panzer Group to the south, why didn’t he direct Eleventh Army to the Pervomaisk area?
"For what a man had rather be true he more readily believes."
Francis Bacon 1620

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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 14 Nov 2010 16:52

Hello to all :D; Max I'm speaking from memory but at that time Aug 1941 the 11 AOK was advancing towards the city port of Nikolajew to encircle the soviet forces against the sea; besides it was cooperating with the Rumanians in its fight for Odessa. A nice thread to discuss indeed. Now more follows................

The Cauldron of Uman 25th July 1941 - 08 August 1941.

The three infantry divisions deployed in the north now virtually pushed the front, “shoulder to shoulder" against the surrounded enemy, they retreated, partly completely overwhelmed, back to the south and sought refuge in the dense forests and swamps of Podwyssokoje, the commissairs drove the Red Army time after time against the German front, the light tanks of the II and XVI. Soviet tank corps were shot down in rows or remained stuck in the swamps, there were now only local hard fighting, as in Kopjenkowata, Rassochowatjez and south of Podwyssokoje. The High Command of the Wehrmacht (OKW) issued a special announcement on Aug 09, 1941 known as follows:

"..The German troops with the gallant participation of the Hungarian ally have won a great success in Ukraine. In the Battle of Uman, the 6th, 12th and parts of the Soviet 18th Army - a total of 25 rifle, mountain and armored divisions – were destroyed. More than 123 000 prisoners, among them the commanders of the 6th and 12th Army, fell into our hands. 317 armored fighting vehicles, 12 railway trains and countless other war material were captured. The enemy's bloody losses amounted to more than 200,000 men "

Sources: http://www.balsi.de/feldzugsbeginn.htm
Enzian und Edelweiss. Die 4. Gebirgs_Division 1940 – 1945.
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/ ... 1-t297464/

It's all folks. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Max Payload
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Max Payload » 15 Nov 2010 09:51

Eleventh Army began its attack across the Prut on 2 July. Around this time (certainly by 4 July) Rundstedt had decided to redirect

his main effort into the southern Ukraine to try to cut in behind South-western Front west of the Dnieper, and he had begun to

restructure his forces accordingly. Eleventh Army's 11 AOK (72 I D) was on the Dniester south of Mogilev Podolsky by 10 July when

Seventeenth Army was still west of Kamenets Podolsky (though it was advancing at around 20km per day during the first half of July).

So on 10 July, 11 AOK was closer to Pervomaisk than was Seventeenth Army, and it was also closer to Pervomaisk than it was to

Odessa. No doubt there were good operational or strategic reasons for using Seventeenth rather than Eleventh Army to complete the

encirclement at Uman, but, since the key decisions seem to have been taken in the first half of July, I have never been sure what

those reasons were. (It may have been concerns over the ability of Eleventh Army to cross the Dniester - in fact it didn't get

across at Mogilev Podolsky intil 18 July; it may have been that Rundstedt intended to use Eleventh Army but that by the second half

of July Seventeenth Army, by then on the right bank of the Bug, was in a better position to reach Pervomaisk quickly; it may have

been that Eleventh Army's strategic objectives - Odessa, the lower Dnepr and the Crimea - were too important for diversion to an

encirclement operation).
"For what a man had rather be true he more readily believes."
Francis Bacon 1620

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John Hilly
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by John Hilly » 15 Nov 2010 13:02

Max Payload wrote: Post by Max Payload » Today, 11:51
Unreadible, edit, please!
Juha-Pekka :(
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Max Payload » 15 Nov 2010 15:17

Apologies. I hadn't figured out how to preview. This should make more sense:-

Eleventh Army began its attack across the Prut on 2 July. Around this time (certainly by 4 July) Rundstedt had decided to redirect his main effort into the southern Ukraine to try to cut in behind South-western Front west of the Dnieper, and he had begun to restructure his forces accordingly. Eleventh Army's 11 AOK (72 I D) was on the Dniester south of Mogilev Podolsky by 10 July when Seventeenth Army was still west of Kamenets Podolsky (though it was advancing at around 20km per day during the first half of July). So on 10 July, 11 AOK was closer to Pervomaisk than was Seventeenth Army, and it was also closer to Pervomaisk than it was to Odessa. No doubt there were good operational or strategic reasons for using Seventeenth rather than Eleventh Army to complete the encirclement at Uman, but, since the key decisions seem to have been taken in the first half of July, I have never been sure what those reasons were. (It may have been concerns over the ability of Eleventh Army to cross the Dniester - in fact it didn't get across at Mogilev Podolsky intil 18 July; it may have been that Rundstedt intended to use Eleventh Army but that by the second half of July Seventeenth Army, by then on the right bank of the Bug, was in a better position to reach Pervomaisk quickly; it may have been that Eleventh Army's strategic objectives - Odessa, the lower Dnepr and the Crimea - were too important for diversion to an encirclement operation).
"For what a man had rather be true he more readily believes."
Francis Bacon 1620

teg
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by teg » 19 Nov 2010 10:11

And what were the losses of separate German units during this battle?

Nicole S.
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Nicole S. » 20 Nov 2010 00:01

A good source with excellent maps would be Ewald Klapdor: Der Ostfeldzug 1941 - eine vorprogrammierte Niederlage? Die Panzergruppe 1 zwischen Bug und Don

Eigenverlag 1989, about 500 pages

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