Uman. 1941

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
Volyn
Member
Posts: 455
Joined: 04 Jul 2018 04:53
Location: USA

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Volyn » 19 Nov 2018 17:49

tigre wrote:
19 Nov 2018 15:45
On July 31, 1941, the brigade became subordinated to the XXXXVIII. AK and moved south to the area of Nowo Arkhangelsk, where it closed the cauldron of Uman. By mid-August 1941, the brigade reached the area east of Voznesensk and took Chersson on the Dnieper on August 19, 1941.
Good information -

Here is another map showing a Russian town closest to 1. Geb and LAH (see the highlighted position), is the name Podwyssokoje?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 19 Nov 2018 20:22

Hello Volyn :D; you've right it is Podwyssokoje..........................Take a look below

Akte 630. Unterlagen der Ia-Abteilung des Generalkommandos des XXXXIX. (Geb.) Armeekorps: Beschreibung der Kämpfe im Raum Winniza bis zur Ausräumung des Kessel bei Podwyssokoje (20.7.-7.8.1941)

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/n ... ect/zoom/4

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3120
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 20 Feb 2020 10:21

Hi, Tigre, what the role played by Soviet Mechanized Corps in battle of Uman, I check wiki as it mentions this force was acted as Rescue force but in your map you attached, it seemed like being trapped in Uman, is it trapped Units or helping Forces ? Thank

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 30 Mar 2020 05:55

Hello Kelvin :D; just now I see your query..............................

Soviet Mechanized Corps in Uman 1941.

August 5, 1941

According to the developed plan, the remaining troops of the 6th and 12th armies were to make a breakthrough in the direction of Pervomaisk, where it was supposed to connect with the troops of the 18th army. The breakthrough group included: from the 12th army - 8 Rifle Corps, the remaining 13 Rifle Corps, 24 Mechanized Corps; from the 6th army - 37 Rifle Corps, 16th Mechanized Corps.
The cover group consisted of 49 Rifle Corps and 2nd Mechanized Corps, which were supposed to restrain the enemy at the line of Levkovka, Torgovitsy, Nerubayka, Nebelivka, Ostrovets.

The breakout group had the task of:
         - 24th Mk - attack along the river Syniukha to the south;
         - 8th RK - knock out German units from Ternovka and further develop the offensive to the southeast;
         - 37th RK forces of the 80th RD by the morning of August 5 to capture the crossing of the river Yatran on the section Lebedinka - Orlovo and further attack to Trojan;
         - The 16th MK, reinforced by a group of Colonel Fotchenko and the 3rd Ptbr, capture the crossing between Ternovka - Pokatilovo and then advance to Tarasovka.

The general breakthrough order for the Ponedelin group was issued at 02:00, the start of the offensive was scheduled for 09:00. The result of the day of fighting was the disruption of the command plan of the XXXXIX. Geb AK for the final liquidation of the encircled group of the 6th and 12th armies. But the troops of the Ponedelin group did not fulfill the task, they could not break out of the ring, and suffered heavy losses. A number of important strongholds were lost, the front of the encirclement narrowed significantly, and Soviet troops found themselves in the space completely fired by artillery and small arms. However, the command of the Ponedelin group did not abandon the breakthrough from the encirclement, which was scheduled for the night of August 5-6.

August 6, 1941

The plan and direction of the breakthrough of the troops of the 6th and 12th armies on the night of August 5-6 remained unchanged. A breakthrough by the remnants of the 6th Army was carried out by three strike groups in the directions: Emilovka and Emilovsky forest; on river Trojan and further on Shepilovo; between Emilovka and the Trojan. The main blow was struck at the junction between the western and eastern groups of the 4.GD, at positions of GJR 91 and IR 477 of the 257.ID, as well as at the positions of the Aukl. Abt. 94 at Height 203 northwest farm Shevchenko. In the strip of the 12th army, a breakthrough was carried out by forces of the 24th Mk to the southeast and 8th RK to the east through s. Ternovka

In general, the breakthrough by the troops of the 6th and 12th armies on the night of August 6 was unsuccessful. The leading groups involved in the breakthrough were scattered, having suffered significant losses, and only a few groups managed to seep through the positions of the German units.

Source: http://www.istor-44gsd.ru/Html/Hrono_018.html (onwards)

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3120
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 01 Apr 2020 03:52

tigre wrote:
30 Mar 2020 05:55
Hello Kelvin :D; just now I see your query..............................

Soviet Mechanized Corps in Uman 1941.

August 5, 1941

According to the developed plan, the remaining troops of the 6th and 12th armies were to make a breakthrough in the direction of Pervomaisk, where it was supposed to connect with the troops of the 18th army. The breakthrough group included: from the 12th army - 8 Rifle Corps, the remaining 13 Rifle Corps, 24 Mechanized Corps; from the 6th army - 37 Rifle Corps, 16th Mechanized Corps.
The cover group consisted of 49 Rifle Corps and 2nd Mechanized Corps, which were supposed to restrain the enemy at the line of Levkovka, Torgovitsy, Nerubayka, Nebelivka, Ostrovets.

The breakout group had the task of:
         - 24th Mk - attack along the river Syniukha to the south;
         - 8th RK - knock out German units from Ternovka and further develop the offensive to the southeast;
         - 37th RK forces of the 80th RD by the morning of August 5 to capture the crossing of the river Yatran on the section Lebedinka - Orlovo and further attack to Trojan;
         - The 16th MK, reinforced by a group of Colonel Fotchenko and the 3rd Ptbr, capture the crossing between Ternovka - Pokatilovo and then advance to Tarasovka.

The general breakthrough order for the Ponedelin group was issued at 02:00, the start of the offensive was scheduled for 09:00. The result of the day of fighting was the disruption of the command plan of the XXXXIX. Geb AK for the final liquidation of the encircled group of the 6th and 12th armies. But the troops of the Ponedelin group did not fulfill the task, they could not break out of the ring, and suffered heavy losses. A number of important strongholds were lost, the front of the encirclement narrowed significantly, and Soviet troops found themselves in the space completely fired by artillery and small arms. However, the command of the Ponedelin group did not abandon the breakthrough from the encirclement, which was scheduled for the night of August 5-6.

August 6, 1941

The plan and direction of the breakthrough of the troops of the 6th and 12th armies on the night of August 5-6 remained unchanged. A breakthrough by the remnants of the 6th Army was carried out by three strike groups in the directions: Emilovka and Emilovsky forest; on river Trojan and further on Shepilovo; between Emilovka and the Trojan. The main blow was struck at the junction between the western and eastern groups of the 4.GD, at positions of GJR 91 and IR 477 of the 257.ID, as well as at the positions of the Aukl. Abt. 94 at Height 203 northwest farm Shevchenko. In the strip of the 12th army, a breakthrough was carried out by forces of the 24th Mk to the southeast and 8th RK to the east through s. Ternovka

In general, the breakthrough by the troops of the 6th and 12th armies on the night of August 6 was unsuccessful. The leading groups involved in the breakthrough were scattered, having suffered significant losses, and only a few groups managed to seep through the positions of the German units.

Source: http://www.istor-44gsd.ru/Html/Hrono_018.html (onwards)

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Hi, Tigre, thank for your Detail. It seemed 2nd Mechanized Corps was trapped inside pocket.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 14 Apr 2020 02:54

Hello to all :D; something more to get a better idea of ​​the general situation.........................

In the context of the battle of Uman - July 1941.

Tarnopol was taken on July 2 and the Stalin line was broken on July 7. On July 16, Biala Zerkow was reached, where the XIV. AK Corps turned south to take part in the battle at Uman until August 8, 1941.

Heavy fighting took place on July 16 near Taratschtscha. While parts of the SS-Wiking Division marched south as part of XIV. Army Corps to help destroy the Uman cauldron, the bulk of the division was established along the Ross River at Kanew in the Dnieper. From here, the division chased Russian troops south of the Dnieper to Smela, where heavy fighting ensued on August 6, 1941.

Source: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... VKorps.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... king-R.htm
https://www.catawiki.nl/l/4350663-waffe ... -1958-1963

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 08 Jul 2020 02:55

Hello to all :D; more.........................

Ukraine 1941.

Source: https://www.hdg.de/lemo/search/SolrQuer ... eg&h=1400&

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3120
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 08 Jul 2020 10:29

tigre wrote:
08 Jul 2020 02:55
Hello to all :D; more.........................

Ukraine 1941.

Source: https://www.hdg.de/lemo/search/SolrQuer ... eg&h=1400&

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Hello, Raul, thank for your addition

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 09 Jul 2020 00:04

You're welcome Kelvin :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3120
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 24 Sep 2020 14:28

tigre wrote:
09 Jul 2020 00:04
You're welcome Kelvin :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Hi, Tigre, in accordance with Charles Pettiborne book order of battle mentions Soviet 223rd Rifle division was trapped and destroyed in Uman pocket, but I don't see it in your map, do you know if 223rd Rifle division was destroyed in battle of Uman ? Thank

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 24 Sep 2020 17:24

Hello Kelvin :D; AFAIK the 223rd Rifle Division, formed in July 1941, entered the active army on July 30, 1941 and subsequently participated in the Kiev defensive operation. The division was transferred from Kharkov to the Kirovograd area with the aim of launching an attack in the direction of Novomirgorod - Zvenigorodka with the aim of unlocking the troops of the 6th and 12th armies of the South Front surrounded near Uman. However, having no time to start the offensive, the division was attacked on Aug 02, 1941 in the Novomirgorod area by the German 14th Panzer Division of the III Motorized Corps and, unable to withstand the blow and suffering heavy losses, withdrew to Kirovograd.

The 223rd Rifle Division, which had just been formed in Kharkov, under the command of Major General chemical troops F.G. Filippov. the division was not fully equipped and, moreover, had absolutely no means of communication and observation. When disembarking from echelons at st. Shestakovka it was subjected to such a bombardment that there could be no question of active actions. On the morning of August 2, on a march in the Novomirgorod area, she was met by enemy assault aircraft and tanks with motorized infantry of the 14th Panzer Division. Unable to withstand the blow, the division withdrew for Kirovograd, towards the station Kutsovka. And the headquarters of the Southern Front at that time reported to Moscow that the 223rd Infantry Division with some kind of "consolidated regiment" on the morning of August 2 "continued to fight the enemy on the line Martynosh (Martonosha. - V.D.) outskirts of NV. Mirgorod, Birzulovo, preventing a breakthrough in the southeast and south directions. Not knowing the real situation, on August 4, the commander of the Southern Front, Tyulenev, ordered the encircled “Ponedelin's group” to break through to the east in the general direction of Novo-Ukrainka and leave the line NV. Mirgorod, Novo-Ukrainka to join the 223rd division. " The division itself was tasked with "firmly defending the approaches to Znamenka and Kirovo from the west." The combat report to the Headquarters indicated that "the 223rd Infantry Division is being put in order in the Kirovograd area and there is no new information about it."

Боевой путь части - Unit March Route: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/warunit/223+%D1%81%D0%B4/

Sources: http://www.polk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=320

That unit was out of the cauldron. Cheers.Raúl M 8-).

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3120
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 25 Sep 2020 08:50

tigre wrote:
24 Sep 2020 17:24
Hello Kelvin :D; AFAIK the 223rd Rifle Division, formed in July 1941, entered the active army on July 30, 1941 and subsequently participated in the Kiev defensive operation. The division was transferred from Kharkov to the Kirovograd area with the aim of launching an attack in the direction of Novomirgorod - Zvenigorodka with the aim of unlocking the troops of the 6th and 12th armies of the South Front surrounded near Uman. However, having no time to start the offensive, the division was attacked on Aug 02, 1941 in the Novomirgorod area by the German 14th Panzer Division of the III Motorized Corps and, unable to withstand the blow and suffering heavy losses, withdrew to Kirovograd.

The 223rd Rifle Division, which had just been formed in Kharkov, under the command of Major General chemical troops F.G. Filippov. the division was not fully equipped and, moreover, had absolutely no means of communication and observation. When disembarking from echelons at st. Shestakovka it was subjected to such a bombardment that there could be no question of active actions. On the morning of August 2, on a march in the Novomirgorod area, she was met by enemy assault aircraft and tanks with motorized infantry of the 14th Panzer Division. Unable to withstand the blow, the division withdrew for Kirovograd, towards the station Kutsovka. And the headquarters of the Southern Front at that time reported to Moscow that the 223rd Infantry Division with some kind of "consolidated regiment" on the morning of August 2 "continued to fight the enemy on the line Martynosh (Martonosha. - V.D.) outskirts of NV. Mirgorod, Birzulovo, preventing a breakthrough in the southeast and south directions. Not knowing the real situation, on August 4, the commander of the Southern Front, Tyulenev, ordered the encircled “Ponedelin's group” to break through to the east in the general direction of Novo-Ukrainka and leave the line NV. Mirgorod, Novo-Ukrainka to join the 223rd division. " The division itself was tasked with "firmly defending the approaches to Znamenka and Kirovo from the west." The combat report to the Headquarters indicated that "the 223rd Infantry Division is being put in order in the Kirovograd area and there is no new information about it."

Боевой путь части - Unit March Route: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/warunit/223+%D1%81%D0%B4/

Sources: http://www.polk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=320

That unit was out of the cauldron. Cheers.Raúl M 8-).
Hi, Raul M, thank so much for your help. Very helpful. :D

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10581
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 25 Sep 2020 18:05

Glad to hear that :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3120
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 13 Oct 2020 13:49

Hello, Raul M, I would like to ask if 4th and 8th Mechanized Corps were trapped in Uman pocket too ? I see book armored warfare on the Eastern Front mentions 8th Tank division was destroyed in Uman. I see David Glantz book Stumbling Colossus mentions 8th, 12th and 32nd Tank divisions was destroyed and reform as smaller tank brigades.

May I ask any data from you about status of both 4th and 8th Mechanized Corps in Uman pocket, thank

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7042
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 19:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Art » 15 Oct 2020 08:30

Kelvin wrote:
13 Oct 2020 13:49
I see book armored warfare on the Eastern Front mentions 8th Tank division was destroyed in Uman.
That was so-called Fotchenkov's groups composed of elements of 8 and 32 Tank Divisions. Colonel Pyotr Fotchenkov (commander of the 8 TD) was killed in the Uman pocket. 8 Tank Division itself was replenished and with more than 120 tanks took part in the battle for Dniepropetrovsk in the second half of August 1941 under a new commander colonel Yefim Pushkin. In September 1941 it was reformed as 130 Tank Brigade (again commanded by Y. Pushkin).

Return to “WW2 in Eastern Europe”