Uman. 1941

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Kelvin
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 15 Oct 2020 09:11

Art wrote:
15 Oct 2020 08:30
Kelvin wrote:
13 Oct 2020 13:49
I see book armored warfare on the Eastern Front mentions 8th Tank division was destroyed in Uman.
That was so-called Fotchenkov's groups composed of elements of 8 and 32 Tank Divisions. Colonel Pyotr Fotchenkov (commander of the 8 TD) was killed in the Uman pocket. 8 Tank Division itself was replenished and with more than 120 tanks took part in the battle for Dniepropetrovsk in the second half of August 1941 under a new commander colonel Yefim Pushkin. In September 1941 it was reformed as 130 Tank Brigade (again commanded by Y. Pushkin).
Hi, Art, thank for your detailed data.
Robert Focrzyk book tank warfare on the Eastern Front mentions German totally destroyed 5 x Mechanized Corps, I am sure 2nd, 16th and 24th Mechanized Corps were trapped in Uman pocket but did 04th and 08th Mechanized corps were acted as rescue force from Southwestern Front to help both 06th and 12th Armies of the Southern Front. So those two mechanized should be outside of Uman pocket, right ? Thank

Art
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Art » 17 Oct 2020 20:19

Briefly, 4, 8 and 15 Mechanized Corps were withdrawn behind the Dnieper in mid-July for rest and reorganization, leaving ad-hoc battle groups like Fotchenkov's group described above on the front. By the start of August headquarters of the 4 and 8 Mechanized Corps were used to form HQ of 37 and 38 armies respectively. 8, 10, and 12 Tank Division were converted to new TO&Es. 32, 34, and 37 Tank Divisions were disbanded and their personnel and equipment were used channeled to other units.

Kelvin
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 18 Oct 2020 01:08

Art wrote:
17 Oct 2020 20:19
Briefly, 4, 8 and 15 Mechanized Corps were withdrawn behind the Dnieper in mid-July for rest and reorganization, leaving ad-hoc battle groups like Fotchenkov's group described above on the front. By the start of August headquarters of the 4 and 8 Mechanized Corps were used to form HQ of 37 and 38 armies respectively. 8, 10, and 12 Tank Division were converted to new TO&Es. 32, 34, and 37 Tank Divisions were disbanded and their personnel and equipment were used channeled to other units.
Hello, Art, thank so much for your detailed answer. David Glantz book Stumbling Colossus connects 8th, 12th, 32nd and 34th Tank divisions with " Uman " in August, but I guess these four divisions except ad hoc Fotchenkov group, seemed nothing to do with battle of Uman, right ? Thank

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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Art » 18 Oct 2020 19:05

Depends what you mean by battle of Uman. 12 Tank Division was a part of the shock group of the SW Front attacking from Kanev in early August with a mission to rescue the Uman pocket or at least to release pressure on it. I guess, it was the most battle-worthy of tank divisions on that moment.

Kelvin
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 19 Oct 2020 04:22

Art wrote:
18 Oct 2020 19:05
Depends what you mean by battle of Uman. 12 Tank Division was a part of the shock group of the SW Front attacking from Kanev in early August with a mission to rescue the Uman pocket or at least to release pressure on it. I guess, it was the most battle-worthy of tank divisions on that moment.
Hi, Art, thank for your additional data. Yes, I know what you mean. I knew what troop trapped in Uman pocket and I don't know how big of resuce force for trapped force in Uman. But David Glantz book confused me. he connects 8th, 12th, 32nd and 34th Tank divisions in Uman and then they disappeared and converted into tank brigade. Robert Forcyrk book only mentions 8th Tank division joined the rescue, right now I knew 12th Tank division also joined the rescue mission. But did 32 and 34th Tank divisions involved in this resuce mission ? Thank

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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Art » 22 Oct 2020 19:18

Kelvin wrote:
19 Oct 2020 04:22
Robert Forcyrk book only mentions 8th Tank division joined the rescue
I don't think it is correct. I believe, the 8 Tank Division was reorganizing behind the Dnieper and was only shipped to Dniepropetrovsk on 15 August.
The orders to disband 32, 34, and 37 Tank Divisions were issued on 3 August 41.

Kelvin
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 23 Oct 2020 04:18

Art wrote:
22 Oct 2020 19:18
Kelvin wrote:
19 Oct 2020 04:22
Robert Forcyrk book only mentions 8th Tank division joined the rescue
I don't think it is correct. I believe, the 8 Tank Division was reorganizing behind the Dnieper and was only shipped to Dniepropetrovsk on 15 August.
The orders to disband 32, 34, and 37 Tank Divisions were issued on 3 August 41.
Hello, Art, thank for your help.

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tigre
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by tigre » 24 Oct 2020 02:33

Yes Art, thanks, also useful for me :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Art » 24 Oct 2020 14:35

Addition: the following units were formed on the South-West Front in August 1941 from former mechanized corps

53 Tank Battalion - from 67 Tank Regiment/34 Tank Division
55 Tank Battalion - from 58 Tank Regiment/131 Motorized Division
57 Tank Battalion - from 73 Tank Regiment/37 Tank Division
60 Tank Battalion - from 74 Tank Regiment/37 Tank Division
63 Tank Battalion - from 405 Tank Regiment/7 Motorized Division
65 Tank Battalion - from 58 Tank Regiment/131 Motorized Division
89 Tank Battalion - from 63 Tank Regiment/32 Tank Division
91 Tank Battalion - from 64 Tank Regiment/32 Tank Division
94 Tank Battalion - from 68 Tank Regiment/34 Tank Division
32 Motorcycle Regiment - from 32 Motorized Rifle Regiment/32 Tank Division and other elements
34 Motorcycle Regiment - from 34 Motorized Rifle Regiment/34 Tank Division and other elements
37 Motorcycle Regiment - from 37 Motorized Rifle Regiment/37 Tank Division and other elements

10 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 10 Pontoon Battalion/10 Tank Division
12 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 12 Pontoon Battalion/10 Tank Division
19 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 19 Pontoon Battalion/19 Tank Division
32 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 32 Pontoon Battalion/32 Tank Division
37 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 37 Pontoon Battalion/10 Tank Division
45 Engineer Battalion - from 45 Eng.Bat./8 Mech.Corps
48 Engineer Battalion - from 48 Eng.Bat./4 Mech.Corps
65 Engineer Battalion - from 65 Eng.Bat./15 Mech.Corps

By order of 09.08.41 the balance of personnel of the 32 Tank Division was sent from Priluki to Gorkiy, where it formed 1 and 8 Tank Brigades
By order of 10.08.41 the balance of the personnel of the 34 Tank Division was sent from Nezhin to Vladimir where it formed 2 and 16 Tank Brigades
By order of 09.08.41 the balance of the personnel of the 37 Tank Division was sent from Piryatin to Kharkov where it formed 3 Tank Brigade
By order of 09.08.41 the balance of the 15 Tank Division (16 Mechanized Corps) was sent from Piryatin to Stalingrad where it formed 4 Tank Brigade. 15 Motorized Rifle Regiment remained attached to the 7 Motorized Division.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=133299045

In September 1941 the 1 (II) Tank Brigade (later 31 Tank Brigade) was formed on the SWF at Akhtyrka from surplus personnel of 8 and 12 Tank Division and tank battalions:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=133299084

Kelvin
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Re: Uman. 1941

Post by Kelvin » 09 Aug 2021 06:46

Art wrote:
24 Oct 2020 14:35
Addition: the following units were formed on the South-West Front in August 1941 from former mechanized corps

53 Tank Battalion - from 67 Tank Regiment/34 Tank Division
55 Tank Battalion - from 58 Tank Regiment/131 Motorized Division
57 Tank Battalion - from 73 Tank Regiment/37 Tank Division
60 Tank Battalion - from 74 Tank Regiment/37 Tank Division
63 Tank Battalion - from 405 Tank Regiment/7 Motorized Division
65 Tank Battalion - from 58 Tank Regiment/131 Motorized Division
89 Tank Battalion - from 63 Tank Regiment/32 Tank Division
91 Tank Battalion - from 64 Tank Regiment/32 Tank Division
94 Tank Battalion - from 68 Tank Regiment/34 Tank Division
32 Motorcycle Regiment - from 32 Motorized Rifle Regiment/32 Tank Division and other elements
34 Motorcycle Regiment - from 34 Motorized Rifle Regiment/34 Tank Division and other elements
37 Motorcycle Regiment - from 37 Motorized Rifle Regiment/37 Tank Division and other elements

10 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 10 Pontoon Battalion/10 Tank Division
12 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 12 Pontoon Battalion/10 Tank Division
19 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 19 Pontoon Battalion/19 Tank Division
32 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 32 Pontoon Battalion/32 Tank Division
37 Separate Pontoon Battalion - from the 37 Pontoon Battalion/10 Tank Division
45 Engineer Battalion - from 45 Eng.Bat./8 Mech.Corps
48 Engineer Battalion - from 48 Eng.Bat./4 Mech.Corps
65 Engineer Battalion - from 65 Eng.Bat./15 Mech.Corps

By order of 09.08.41 the balance of personnel of the 32 Tank Division was sent from Priluki to Gorkiy, where it formed 1 and 8 Tank Brigades
By order of 10.08.41 the balance of the personnel of the 34 Tank Division was sent from Nezhin to Vladimir where it formed 2 and 16 Tank Brigades
By order of 09.08.41 the balance of the personnel of the 37 Tank Division was sent from Piryatin to Kharkov where it formed 3 Tank Brigade
By order of 09.08.41 the balance of the 15 Tank Division (16 Mechanized Corps) was sent from Piryatin to Stalingrad where it formed 4 Tank Brigade. 15 Motorized Rifle Regiment remained attached to the 7 Motorized Division.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=133299045

In September 1941 the 1 (II) Tank Brigade (later 31 Tank Brigade) was formed on the SWF at Akhtyrka from surplus personnel of 8 and 12 Tank Division and tank battalions:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=133299084
Hi, Art and Tigre, may I ask if 39th Tank Division from 18th Mech Corps was trapped in Uman Kassel too ? I see that division was grouped with 2nd Mech corps as Southern Front reserves in early Aug 41, thank

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