The battle for Memel

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pavle
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Post by pavle » 15 Sep 2006 10:03

6 german panzer divisions that's a lot for defending, i can't see the 551 VGD ? it was supposed to be near the tilsit bridgehead......

The actions must had been classified as Ceaser and Doppelkopf
any ss fighting in the same area?

I have this on 3rd Pz.Armee: 3rd Panzerarmy XXXIX PzK september 1944.

SS-Kampfgruppe Hirthes was in that korps together with Grossdeutschland.
It was part of the 15th Latvian but were did they operate?

And most important how did the 7th panzer lines aswell as the 4th,14th 12th and 5th got crushed and were forced to retreat in one month time the 7th 551VGD and GD were pushed back to Memel how bad were these fights there are some accounts in Kampf um OstPreussen but any more detailed accounts about these vicious fights are appreciated...

All the best

Pavle

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 15 Sep 2006 12:27

6 german panzer divisions that's a lot for defending
Ähm , dear friend , ever thought about the strength of those divisions at that particular time frame ?

For example , the 12.PzDiv. had only one PzAbt. at hand , the II./PzRgt.29 , Iststärke on 1st August 1944 :

6 Pz IV (lg)
3 Pz IV (kz)
3 Pz III (lg)

and 1 BefehlsPz.

8O

For 5.PzDiv. see this extract of von Platos divisional history :

Image

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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Post by pavle » 19 Sep 2006 14:18

That really is a weak formtion for the 12th and 5th Pz, but wasn't the 7th Panzer near full strength , around that time and GD having also significant armor and supplies in august september 44?

Andreas
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Post by Andreas » 19 Sep 2006 14:34

5. Panzer was at about half-strength, if one includes the vehicles in short-term repair. Not bad considering the amount of combat they had been through since the end of June.

Were there any replacements arriving between the dates noted here and the beginning of Operation Doppelkopf?

All the best

Andreas

Andreas
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Post by Andreas » 20 Sep 2006 08:18

According to Niepold the two AK conducting Doppelkopf had 281 operational tanks and assault guns, and another 113 (I think) in short term repair. More tanks arrived a bit later. The breakdown by divisions is also available.

That is not a bad tank grouping for this point in the war, and if these tanks had been available in Romania instead, they would probably have made a bigger difference there.

All the best

Andreas

pavle
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Post by pavle » 30 Sep 2006 11:01

The heroicc battle of the 551st VGD in Tryskiay:

Twice did the 551 VGD manage to fend off attacks from russian units from the 3rd White russian front that tried to break through the 3rd Panzerarmee's position (3rd Pz.armee had only 5 divisions at that point early october...

After massive bombardmnets the exhausted defenders 551 VGD defending a staggering 42 km front zone (which could only be held by several strongpoints)had to abandon positions (more exactly almost all the defenders got smashed by the relentless heavy arty)

The advanced russian units encountered only flattened positions with virtually noone alive.
Allthough some semi large groups were still fighting for their lives totally surrounded.

By that time the AA GD CO Rittmeister Schroedter made a deep penetration towards
Tryskiay and smashed and surprised several advanced soviet posts which fled in a hurry due to the verve and swift attack style fromthe AA GD.

They advanced/retook the old frontline positions and freed up a totally surrounded
battle group from the 551VGD.
On the morning after however the GD AA had to retreat to the west and do some delay battles for every german soldier to arrive at the Memel bridgehead and shorten the frontlines...

The GD division and 7th Panzer had fought immense and did a incredible job rearguarding the 3rd Pz.Armee front which had fallen back in 14 days from the 4th october till 15th october allmost 3to 4 hundred kilometers! to Memel
the GD and 7th Panzer were rearguarding till literally the last moment when they got allmost completely surrounded or when russian units had bypassed them largely on both flanks, then fight their way through to the friendly lines and hold out in Memel
An incredible heroic defense Memel was even the Memel Volksturm was fighting superb and bravely..

I say one of the wars best defending/fighting for your lifes/refugees saving Battle!!!!!

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 20 Dec 2006 22:49

Gentlemen , I am still crumbling around with this damn :

Div. z.b.V. 607 , will say : the units subordinated to this staff . A request in Freiburg only has the effort that they told me the only chnace to dig out the need info is to come to Freiburg and dig myself through the appendixes of the KTB of this HGr. ...

Anyone with further Ideas ? I defintly will not have the time to visit Freiburg during the next 8 month , for sure ...

Jan-Hendrik

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 21 Dec 2006 09:14

Addition : exerpt from the Lagekarte Ost , dated 2nd January 1945 , printed in Kurt Mehners "Die geheimen Tagesberichte der Wehrmachtsführung im Zweiten Weltkrieg" :

Image

Jan-Hendrik

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 04 Mar 2007 14:36

Anything about the subordinated units of DivStab z.b.V.607 ?

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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Post by pavle » 08 Mar 2007 09:00

Pre januari 45 those six alarm battalions consisted of i don't know, but it would be safe to say that after jan.45 the div.gruppe Z.b.v. was surely reinforced with stragglers from both 58/95 ID from Memel who could not had evacuated possibly even GD members and some festung Memel forces like Volkssturm why ? cause the Nehrung had to be held at asll costs so every stragglers were formed in this Ad hoc kampfgruppe???

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 08 Mar 2007 10:36

After the Räumung there were no tropps on the Kuhrische Nehrung were no troops anymore , the DivStab.z.b.V. was used in the Festung Pillau :wink:

Jan-Hendrik

brianboru
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Post by brianboru » 10 Mar 2007 00:10

Igorn wrote:
Jan-Hendrik wrote:Pillau , Danzig , Hela , Kolberg , Swinemünde , just for ports at the Baltic . Or Thorn , Graudenz , Königsberg , Schneidemühl , Posen , Breslau , Küstrin .....


Why the inverted commas around the words 'heroic' and 'fortresses' ? Are you saying that Germans were incapable of heroism? They were beaten by the overwhelming "liberating" forces of the "glorious" USSR bringing the "wonders" of communism to half of Europe and "pleasure" to millions of German women.






Jan-Hendrik
.... but the outcome of all these ''heroic" battles was the same: victory for the Soviet Army and defeats of German garrisons in all above "fortresses". :wink:


Best Regards from Russia,

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 10 Mar 2007 10:43

Yes ... and your point is ....?

Jan-Hendrik

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michalst
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Post by michalst » 30 Sep 2007 19:07

Hello people, any news about the subordinated units to DivStab z.b.V.607?

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 15 Oct 2007 14:51

Maybe on the weekend I might be able to tell more...

Jan-Hendrik

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