Operation Wintergewitter

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castro323
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by castro323 » 26 Oct 2016 10:07

Mr.No one wrote:Hello everybody :)

Unknown battalion commanders from 23. Panzer-Division at the time of Operation Wintergewitter:

I have not been able to find the commanders of II. and IV. Abteilung of Panzer-Artilleries-Regiment 128... Anybody know?
Also, I have not been able to find the name of the commander of Panzer-Nachrichten-Abteilung 128...

Best regards!
Sean
II.(mot)/PAR128 - Major Sänger
IV.(Flak)/PAR128 - Major Draffehn

charles.sumpter
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by charles.sumpter » 05 May 2017 04:00

Question regarding the 6. Panzer Division's assault and capture of Verknie Kumskii on 19. Dez.: Horst Scheibert gives the tank strength as: "8/25/13/5/6". I believe this is a breakdown of Pz IIs, IIIs, IVs and Befehls Panzer. So: 8 Pz II, 25 Pz III, 13 Pz IV, 5 Bef Pz, ... but that does not work. Or is it: 8 Pz II, 25 Pz III (l), 13 Pz III (75), 5 Pz IV, 6 Bef Pz? Scheibert also states the Panzer Regiment was reduced to the strength of a "weak Battalion." Thanks

marthus
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by marthus » 05 May 2017 09:45

hello

On December 18th in the evening, 6 PZD had 43 operational tanks (without counting Pz II considered as obsolete) 25 Pz III L/13 Pz III C 75mm/5 Pz IV L on December 20th, she had 20 operational tanks + 17 tanks in the course of routing of repair shops towards the division 5 Pz II/5 Pz III L/2 Pz IV C/2 Pz IV L/6 Pz of command

good day

charles.sumpter
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by charles.sumpter » 05 May 2017 20:27

Thanks marthus

xsli
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by xsli » 07 Aug 2017 16:45

Hi, folks, I know this is an old thread - but can anyone enlighten me on the German deployable forces at the time of Wintergewitter by analyzing the overall situation? Could a larger forces be assembled (e.g. 2 extra panzer divisions)? It is well known that the failure is due to insufficient relief forces, perhaps also logistic difficulties in supporting them. Some of the new arrivals were stuck at Don-Chir front, but the total fell far short of relieving 6A.

jesk
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Location: Belarus

Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by jesk » 07 Aug 2017 18:25

There were problems with strategy. In February-March after reduction of the front near Demyansk and Rzhev, 32 divisions were released.

Image

marthus
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by marthus » 08 Aug 2017 14:06

Hello

There is now a very complete book on the operation Wintergetwitter or Winter-Storm.
Stalingrad battle atlas volume VI: 1er -31 December 1942, of Anton Joly
This book is made from archives Allemandes et Soviétiques of time(period)
The quality of the book (paper and cards(maps)) is not very good but it is all the same readable(legible)!
Salatations

xsli
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by xsli » 08 Aug 2017 15:29

Hi, Marthus,
Stalingrad battle atlas volume VI
I think you mean v4 - just ordered :thumbsup:

marthus
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by marthus » 08 Aug 2017 20:14

yes

FORBIN Yves
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by FORBIN Yves » 23 Aug 2017 11:20

Mr.No one wrote:Correlation of Operational Tanks at the Outset of Operation Wintergewitter

German Forces, LVII. Panzer-Korps

11th December 1942

6. Panzer-Division: 19 Pz. II, 29 Pz. III K, 63 Pz. III L, 23 Pz. IV L, 4 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 138

23. Panzer-Division: 13 Pz. II, 18 Pz. III K, 26 Pz. III L, 12 Pz. IV K, 26 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 97

Total Einsatzbereiten Panzern = 235

All the best,
Sean
Nice stuff but i have a doubt i have 2 number of tanks for 17th and 23th Panzer-Division

17. Panzer-Division : 4 Pz. II, 13 Pz. III K, 22 Pz. III L, 7 Pz. IV K, 9 Pz. IV L, 0 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 55

23. Panzer-Division: 5 Pz. II, 9 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. III L, 9 Pz. IV K, 21 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 64
or 11 Pz. II, 30 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. IV , 3 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 62

And also for the 11th Pz arrive before Wintergewitter for Chir River battles to rfont 07/12 i have with total 75 Panzer if one have more please.

Thank you :)

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Mr.No one
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by Mr.No one » 29 Aug 2017 14:21

FORBIN Yves wrote:
Mr.No one wrote:Correlation of Operational Tanks at the Outset of Operation Wintergewitter

German Forces, LVII. Panzer-Korps

11th December 1942

6. Panzer-Division: 19 Pz. II, 29 Pz. III K, 63 Pz. III L, 23 Pz. IV L, 4 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 138

23. Panzer-Division: 13 Pz. II, 18 Pz. III K, 26 Pz. III L, 12 Pz. IV K, 26 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 97

Total Einsatzbereiten Panzern = 235

All the best,
Sean
Nice stuff but i have a doubt i have 2 number of tanks for 17th and 23th Panzer-Division

17. Panzer-Division : 4 Pz. II, 13 Pz. III K, 22 Pz. III L, 7 Pz. IV K, 9 Pz. IV L, 0 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 55

23. Panzer-Division: 5 Pz. II, 9 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. III L, 9 Pz. IV K, 21 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 64
or 11 Pz. II, 30 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. IV , 3 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 62

And also for the 11th Pz arrive before Wintergewitter for Chir River battles to rfont 07/12 i have with total 75 Panzer if one have more please.

Thank you :)
Do you doubt the veracity of the number of operational tanks of 6. and 23. Panzer-Division on 11th December that I provided, or what are you in doubt about?

It all depends on which date you are looking at and from which headquarter your information stems from.

Cheers,
Sean
Believe in truth!

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sitalkes
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by sitalkes » 30 Aug 2017 00:55

What's a Pz IV L? the last model was a J - do you mean F2 or G?

Jan-Hendrik
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 30 Aug 2017 06:41

Pz. IV lang

Jan-Hendrik

FORBIN Yves
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by FORBIN Yves » 30 Aug 2017 10:19

Mr.No one wrote:
FORBIN Yves wrote:
Mr.No one wrote:Correlation of Operational Tanks at the Outset of Operation Wintergewitter

German Forces, LVII. Panzer-Korps

11th December 1942

6. Panzer-Division: 19 Pz. II, 29 Pz. III K, 63 Pz. III L, 23 Pz. IV L, 4 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 138

23. Panzer-Division: 13 Pz. II, 18 Pz. III K, 26 Pz. III L, 12 Pz. IV K, 26 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 97

Total Einsatzbereiten Panzern = 235

All the best,
Sean
Nice stuff but i have a doubt i have 2 number of tanks for 17th and 23th Panzer-Division

17. Panzer-Division : 4 Pz. II, 13 Pz. III K, 22 Pz. III L, 7 Pz. IV K, 9 Pz. IV L, 0 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 55

23. Panzer-Division: 5 Pz. II, 9 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. III L, 9 Pz. IV K, 21 Pz. IV L, 2 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 64
or 11 Pz. II, 30 Pz. III K, 18 Pz. IV , 3 Pz.Bef.Wg. = 62

And also for the 11th Pz arrive before Wintergewitter for Chir River battles to rfont 07/12 i have with total 75 Panzer if one have more please.

Thank you :)
Do you doubt the veracity of the number of operational tanks of 6. and 23. Panzer-Division on 11th December that I provided, or what are you in doubt about?

It all depends on which date you are looking at and from which headquarter your information stems from.

Cheers,
Sean
No but i have see others number and thinking after Caucasus she did don't have such number of tanks rather about a Bat ~ 60 tanks, so you confirm 97.

I have see a time a II/Lehr Bat with ~30 tanks take part to this Operation ?

Pz IV L for long gun ofc

marthus
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Re: Operation Wintergewitter

Post by marthus » 31 Aug 2017 08:09

Hello
During the departure in the end of November, 1942 to join 57 PZK, 23 PZD had got back to Ssalsk (center of provisioning for the German troops operating in the Caucasus) 20 Pz IV with long canon, who were initially planned for 13 PZD. 17 and 23 PZD also got back tanks of 14 PZK (14, 24 PZD and 29 DIM) who were then in the repair shops of eétaient in repair of Kotelnikovo

I am French and I do not master well the Englishman, but I hope to be all the same understandable

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