Importance of Artillery

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#91

Post by Yuri » 03 Apr 2017, 18:23

Sorry, wanted to correct the text, but created a copy of two of their posts.

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#92

Post by Yuri » 05 Apr 2017, 22:13

Battle order of 333RD and artillery of strengthen on 20.08.1944 (not include korps atillery - 9ADB, mortars rocket systems, self-propelled artillery.)
333RD_BattleOrder_Art.jpg
Distribution by groups
Fire mode
333RD_Art .jpg


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Guaporense
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#93

Post by Guaporense » 06 Apr 2017, 03:32

Art wrote:Just some numbers for information:

German powder production:
1939 - 53 000 tons
1940 - 75 000
1941 - 111 000
1942 - 145 000
1943 - 238 000
1944 - 258 000
1945 (Jan-Feb) - 27 000

Soviet powder production:
1939 - 51 000
1940 - 59 000
1941 (2nd half) - 43 000
1942 - 68 000
1943 - 113 000
1944 - 127 000
1945 (Jan-May) - 49 000
Total Jul 41- May 45 - 400 000 tons of powder. Also 123 000 tons Lend-lease powder received 1942-1945.

German production of explosives, tons:
1939 - 73 000
1940 - 100 000
1941 - 144 000
1942 - 161 000
1943 - 241 000
1944 - 256 000
1945 (Jan-Feb) - 20 000

Soviet production during the war - 505 000 tons (mostly TNT). Production of TNT in 1942-1944 - 273 000 tons (91 000 annual). Also 89 000 tons of TNT received from LL:
1942 - 3 500
1943 - 19 000
1944 - 61 000
Total about 105 000 tons LL explosives received during the war.

German numbers from USSBS, Soviet from Vernidub (1998), also articles by Gavrilov and Balysh
The German powder explosive numbers in the USSBS are much higher than these you posted, these are the numbers from the USSBS for Germany and Japan combined (powders+explosives) in metric tons:

-------- Powder ------- Explosives
1940 -- 74,800 -------- 168,500
1941 -- 111,300 ------- 230,453
1942 -- 147,870 ------- 290,783
1943 -- 238,200 ------- 410,400
1944 -- 257,800 ------- 494,900

My data on powder matches your data but the explosive one I have is twice as high. I took it from the USSBS report on the chemical industry.

So during the whole 1940-1944 period Germany produced 2.5 million metric tons of powder and explosives, compared to 800,000 tons for the USSR over the same period. It's the biggest difference between the two in terms of (major) war related munitions.
"In tactics, as in strategy, superiority in numbers is the most common element of victory." - Carl von Clausewitz

Art
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#94

Post by Art » 06 Apr 2017, 10:26

I've already commented earlier:
Here "explosives" tonnage stands for total weight loaded into shell/bomb which includes mixtures with extenders like ammonium nitrate. Hence a difference when compared with production figures quoted above.
My numbers compare apples to apples, that is individual explosives (TNT, hexogen etc) without inert fillers. Nevertheless, the fact is that German industry was well ahead of the Soviet.

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Re: Importance of Artillery

#95

Post by Art » 08 Apr 2017, 10:56

Also German explosives production from another source ("Waffen und Geheimwaffen des Deutschen Heeres 1933-1945)"

1939: TNT and others - 23 888 tons, Ersatz - 133 tons, extenders - 2 172 tons. Total 26 193 tons.
1940: TNT - 86 226, nitropenta (TEN) - 4 298, picric acid - 2 658, hexogen - 3 455, R-Salz (RDX?)- 494, Ersatz - 27 414, extenders - 36 707. Total 161 252 tons.
1941: TNT - 133 232, nitropenta - 7 946, picric acid - 2 838, hexogen - 5 505, R-Salz - 1 275, Ersatz - 8 976, extenders - 43 152. Total 202 924 tons.
1942: TNT - 156 022, nitropenta - 9 359, picric acid - 1 955, hexogen - 13 345, R-Salz- 1 073, Ersatz - 12 488, extenders - 75 367. Total 269 609 tons.
1943: TNT - 195 249, nitropenta - 11 043, picric acid - 3 641, hexogen - 29 649, R-Salz - 909, Ersatz&extenders - 157 120. Total 397 611.
1944: TNT - 211 968, nitropenta - 12 319, picric acid - 3 968, hexogen - 28 504, R-Salz- 751, Ersatz&extenders - 232 828. Total 490 038 tons.
1945: TNT - 16 952, nitropenta - 1 206, picric acid - 504, hexogen - 1 179, extenders - 19 256. Total 39 097 tons.

Note how the use of extenders increased with time.

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Re: Importance of Artillery

#96

Post by Art » 08 Apr 2017, 20:01

As another exercise with numbers: Soviet and German expenditure of artillery ammunition (1.01.1942-1.03.1945) in number of rounds and projectile weight. There no complete Soviet stats for the year 1942, and no German stats for months after February 1945, hence this period. German expenditure includes all fronts. AT and AA guns and some exotic types of little relevance are not counted:

Infantry guns:

Soviet:
76.2-mm mod.1927 - 19.1 mln rounds/119 thous.tons
76.2-mm mod.43 - 1.2 mln rounds/7 thous. tons
Total 126 thous.tons


German:
7.5-cm LeIG 18 - 26.6 mln rounds/160 thous.tons
15-cm SIG 33 - 5.3 mln rounds/200 thous tons
Total 360 thous.tons


Mortars:

Soviet:
50-mm - 27.8 mln rounds/24 thous. tons
82-mm - 107.2 mln rounds/332 thous. tons
107-mm - 0.9 mln rounds/7 thous. tons
120-mm - 34.1 mln rounds/542 thous. tons
160-mm - 80 thous. rounds/3 thous. tons
Total 908 thous. tons


German:
5-cm - 19.6 mln rounds/18 thous.tons
8.1-cm - 50.4 mln rounds/156 thous.tons
120-cm - 3.5 mln rounds/56 thous. tons
Total 230 thous.tons


Field artillery (medium calibers):

Soviet:
76.2-mm guns - 63.2 mln rounds/392 thous.tons
122-mm howitzers - 19.4 mln rounds/422 thous.tons
107-mm guns - 0.56 mln rounds/10 thous tons
122-mm guns - 2.4 mln rounds/59 thous.tons
Total 883 thous.tons


German:
7.5-cm mountain guns (GebG 36) - 3.2 mln rounds/18 thous.tons
10.5-cm howitzers - 79.5 mln rounds/1176 thous.tons
10-cm guns - 5.5 mln rounds/84 thous.tons
Total 1278 thous.tons


Field artillery (heavy calibers):

Soviet:
152-mm howitzers - 2.9 mln rounds/116 thous.tons
152-mm howitzer-guns - 7 mln rounds/307 thous.tons
203-mm howitzers - 0.56 mln rounds/56 thous.tons
Total 479 thous.tons


German:
15-cm howitzers - 18.5 mln rounds/805 thous.tons
17-cm guns - 0.44 mln rounds/30 thous.tons
21-cm howitzers (Mrs.18) - 1.3 mln rounds/160 thous.tons
Total 995 thous.tons


Overall expenditure Soviet/German:
2.4 mln tons/2.9 mln tons

Overall tonnage was on the same level, but breakdown by types was very different. Soviet artillery had much more emphasize on mortars, German - on heavy calibers (150-mm and more).
More stats on Soviet expenditure here:
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=139080

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#97

Post by Yuri » 08 Apr 2017, 22:24

3UF_OoB.jpg
In the composition of front to 20.8 acted: 5th shock; 57, 35 and 46 Army and guards 4 MC. The front had in its composition
Managements Infantry corps (СК)– 12
Rifle divisions (СД) – 37
Field Fortified regions (УР) – 1
Marine brigades (БМП; ОБМП) – 2
Assault battalions (ШБ) – 3
Penal battalions (ОАШБ) – 1
Artillery of strengthening:
Army Cannon Artillery brigade (ПАБр; Арм.ПАБр) – 4
Cannon-artillery regiments (ПАП) – 9
Corps artillery regiments (КАП) – 2
Howitzer artillery regiments (ГАП) -8
Howitzer artillery brigades of Hight Power (ГАБр БМ) – 2
Light artillery regiments (ЛАП) – 6
Fighter anti-tank artillery regiments (ИПТАП; ОИПТАП) – 23
Fighter anti-tank artillery battalions (ИПТД; ОИПТД) – 1
Mortar regiments (МП) – 15
Anti-aircraft artillery regiments (Зен.АП) – 30
Guards Mortar brigades (ГМБр) – 2
Guards mortar regiments (ГМП) – 9
3UF_OoB1.jpg
Motomech troops:
Mechanized corps (МК) – 2
Mechanized rifle brigades (МСБр) – 1
Separate tank brigades (ОТБр)– 1
Separate tank regiments (ОТП) – 2
Separate motorcycle regiments (ОМЦП) - 2
Separate motorcycle battalion (ОМЦБ) -1
Self-propelled artillery regiments (САП) – 6

Engineers troops:
Engineer-saperny battalion (ИСБ) – 19
Pontoon-bridge battalions – 4
Moto-pontoon regiments - 1
Battalions of dogs mine detectors – 2
Assault engineer-sapper battalions (ШИСБ) – 10
Departments of defence building (УОС) – 2

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#98

Post by Yuri » 08 Apr 2017, 22:40

3UF_Num.jpg
3UF_Num1.jpg
Statement of composition of the troops of the 3rd Ukrainian front as 20.8.44. /Total of Front/

Rifle troops/ Artillery/ Armored troops/ Engineers troops/ Chemical troops

Rifle troops
Manag. RC (Упр. СК) – 12 /11459
Rifle divisions (СД) – 37 /214733
Field Fortified regions (УР) – 1/3387
Marine brigade (Бригад МП) – 2/59107
Assault battalions – 3/2515
Battalions of machine gunners – 1/866
Penal battalions – 1/305
Penal companies – 28/5952
Last edited by Yuri on 09 Apr 2017, 07:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#99

Post by Yuri » 08 Apr 2017, 22:44

3UF_Art.jpg
Distribution of the artillery means

In accordance with the decision of the commander of the 3rd Ukrainian front by the saturation of armies of artillery was following

1. 5 Shock army
All barrels
82 mm – 301 .....76 mm DA – 206
120 mm – 112 .....122 mm – 78
45 mm 138 .....152 mm – 36
76 mm PP – 61 .....203 mm – 2
A total of 930 barrels that the width of the front is 140 km, giving an average density of 1 kilometre of the front – 6,4 guns.

2. 57 Army
All barrels:
82 mm – 415 ......76 mm DA – 186
120 mm 150 .......122 mm – 61
45 mm 145 .......203 mm – 2
57 mm – 20
76 mm RA – 65
A total of 1,080 barrels that the width of front of 16 km, giving an average density of 67.7 barrels 1 kilometre of front.

3. 37 Army
All barrels:
82 mm – 483 ......76 mm DA – 479
120 mm - 150 ......122 mm-h – 246
45 mm - 145 ......122 mm-g – 12
57 mm - 40 ......152 mm – 96
76 mm RA – 101 .......203 mm – 20
Total barrels 1898, when the width of front 14 km, giving an average density of 135,9 barrels 1 kilometre of front.
3UF_Art1.jpg
4. 46 Army
All barrels
82 mm - 557 .......76 mm DA – 658
120 mm – 383 .......122 mm-h – 303
45 mm - 190 .......122 mm-g – 18
57 mm – 48 .......152 mm – 103
76 RA mm – 117 ........203 mm – 24
Total 2401 barrels that when the width of front of 110 km, giving an average density of 21.7 barrels 1 kilometre of front.

5. /cut/
4. /cut/
6. The density of artillery on the main axis of a breakthrough with all artillery and mortars of second echelons engaged for a period of artillery preparation, on 1 km front for armies were:
57 Army when width of front of the main attack - 4 km average density = 185 barrels;
37 Army - 6 km = 240 barrels;
46 Army - 8 km = 208 barrels
Of total number of engaged artillery 57, 37 and 46 Armies /5259 barrels/ specific weight of 82 and 120 mm mortars was 40% / 2155 mortars/
Each Motorized Corps with the introduction of breakthrough intensified one ATArtBr two Light ArtReg; one HAR; one AAArtDiv and one GuardMortReg.
The presence of such a diverse number of artillery means with different tactical and technical data fairly provide of action of moving groups in the enemy rear.
3UF_Art2.jpg
Artillery units acting in raid, created a kind of corridor, impervious to enemy infantry and tanks and kept busy abroad to arrival of the main forces of our troops.
Last edited by Yuri on 09 Apr 2017, 07:14, edited 4 times in total.

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#100

Post by Yuri » 08 Apr 2017, 22:47

ADB_43-44.jpg

Paul Lakowski
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#101

Post by Paul Lakowski » 09 Apr 2017, 00:47

Art wrote:As another exercise with numbers: Soviet and German expenditure of artillery ammunition (1.01.1942-1.03.1945) in number of rounds and projectile weight. There no complete Soviet stats for the year 1942, and no German stats for months after February 1945, hence this period. German expenditure includes all fronts. AT and AA guns and some exotic types of little relevance are not counted:

Infantry guns:

Soviet:
76.2-mm mod.1927 - 19.1 mln rounds/119 thous.tons
76.2-mm mod.43 - 1.2 mln rounds/7 thous. tons
Total 126 thous.tons


German:
7.5-cm LeIG 18 - 26.6 mln rounds/160 thous.tons
1.5-cm SIG 33 - 5.3 mln rounds/200 thous tons
Total 360 thous.tons


Germans had 1.5cm infantry guns? 15mm? and I though the 50mm mortars were useless.

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Re: Importance of Artillery

#102

Post by shamirnewell » 09 Apr 2017, 03:01

Germans had 1.5cm infantry guns? 15mm? and I though the 50mm mortars were useless.[/quote]

Think reference is to 15cm Sig 33. Decimal is the wrong position

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Yuri
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#103

Post by Yuri » 09 Apr 2017, 07:54

R E F E R E N C E
about of consumption of ammunition for operation with 20.8 for 25.8.1944 year.
3UF_ConsumptionOfAmmunition.jpg
For example: consumption of ammunition of 37 Army:
|................37 Army.......................|
|by first day...........|Total for 6 days.....|
|quantity|combat kit|quantity|combat kit|

quantity - in thousand

item 10 - Rifle cartridges
item 11 - Cartridges of TT (for TT pistolet)
Last edited by Yuri on 09 Apr 2017, 08:10, edited 1 time in total.

Art
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Re: Importance of Artillery

#104

Post by Art » 09 Apr 2017, 08:09

Paul Lakowski wrote: Germans had 1.5cm infantry guns? 15mm?
Corrected

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Re: Importance of Artillery

#105

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Apr 2017, 09:12

Thanks for this interesting bunch of data, Art!!

Jan-Hendrik

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