German and Soviet manpower

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
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stg 44
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Re: German and Soviet manpower

#16

Post by stg 44 » 14 Mar 2019, 19:22

Max Payload wrote:
10 Mar 2019, 13:01
Counter wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 21:25
Of course, there are more factors to ponder, but is not sensible the view of that previous to Stalingrad, the russians were losing the atrition war in the East?
Attrition rates in 1942 can’t be projected into 1943 and beyond because one of the factors to ponder is that both sides were on a learning curve of how to gain maximum advantage and inflict maximum damage at least cost. The Soviets continued to make costly and inept errors in 1943, (Sokolovsky’s abortive offensives against AG Centre, and Timoshenko’s botched Polar Star offensive) but the Red Army was proving itself increasingly capable, organisationally and operationally, of successfully confronting a still tactically superior opponent. Stalin allowed his more successful generals greater operational independence and the best of them used the numerical advantage that they still possessed to greater effect. Avoidance of the loss of Sixth Army would have had who knows what consequences, but it would not have changed those fundamentals.
Part of the change in the dynamics of the Eastern Front wasn't simply Soviet improvements, but German degradation in quality, which the loss of 6th army jump started. The loss of 200k veterans of the most powerful field army of the Ostheer was a very serious loss to the German war effort, not to mention all their equipment too, as well as all the Luftwaffe aircraft and crew lost trying to sustain them in the pocket. Avoid that and the Soviets have a much harder row to hoe in 1943.

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Yuri
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Re: German and Soviet manpower

#17

Post by Yuri » 15 Mar 2019, 21:19

Art wrote:
24 Sep 2017, 10:01
German Allies on EF:

Romania - some 300 000 men in the operational area (Stalingrad, Caucasus) in November 1942. By 1.1.43 huge losses were suffered at Stalingrad. Remaining strength - ? Also
Romanian occupational forces in Crimea (2 divisions) - ?
Romanian occupational forces in Transnistria (4 divisions) - ?
Romanian Navy in the Black Sea - ?
According to Axworthy Romanian operational strength deployed outside Romania between 1.11.42 and 31.12.42 was 490 000 men
06_Rum_Verbande_Lage_42_12_31.jpg
08_Rum_Armee_Verluste_41-06-22_42-12-31.jpg
02_Rum_Heer_Lw_KM_InKrieg.jpg
Last edited by Yuri on 15 Mar 2019, 21:47, edited 1 time in total.


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Yuri
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Re: German and Soviet manpower

#18

Post by Yuri » 15 Mar 2019, 21:20

18_Rum_Hun_Bul_Turk_Verbande_In_Home_42.jpg

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Yuri
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Re: German and Soviet manpower

#19

Post by Yuri » 22 Mar 2019, 15:10

Manpower Wehrmacht in Osten November 1942
01_Hitler_Keitel.jpg
page from 1 to 57, the conversation between Hitler and Keitel about the failures
in Caucasus, the incompetence of Generals and the replacement of some of them,
in particular the replacement of Jodl to Paulus after the capture of Stalingrad.
58_Hitler_Keitel.jpg
59_Hitler_Keitel.jpg
Total according to the Keitel's data in the autumn of 1942 in East Wehrmacht:
Wehrmacht_Im_Osten_42_11.jpg
Wehrmacht_Im_Osten_42_11.jpg (55.71 KiB) Viewed 1328 times

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